Continuous column build

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Continuous column build

Postby crafty83 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:36 pm

Ok so I have height restrictions as most do.
I am wanting 4" 6 plate modular glasser with 500mm packed section and it will not fit so my train of thought is a continuous build with thumper.
I could just build a boka for neutral but I don't tend to do things the easy way and I love a challenge.
I have never built anything remotely like this and can't really find any pics of this exact build.
I have a few questions,
What wattage will be sufficient to drive this, I was going for 2 x 2400w with regulator?
Also I believe that continuous setups have a return from the bottom of column to the boiler to stop the column from flooding.
If my thumper is large enough to take the heavier falling liquids, will there be any need for a return?
And one last thing, will the thumper setup strip too much flavour from rum/whiskey if only using 4 plates and no packed section :think: :think: :think:
Any input/ criticism is muchly appreciated
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby warramungas » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:20 pm

That's not a continuous still. That's a pots still with a thumper and plated still attached.
Not sure how it would run but can't see it running much differently from a normal plated still with a thumper attached even I it is in a slightly different configuration.
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby woodduck » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:24 pm

Not sure I've got my head around what your trying to achieve here.

You effectively have two stills joind together. A pot feeding a bubbler. Are the elements only in your first still making the one under the bubbler a thumper? What is your end game? Running bulk wash through or purity? What will this design do that a bubbler with 6 plates and packed section on a 100ltr boiler couldn't do? (Not trying to be smart, im interested in the theory) You could make the boiler short if your short of head space. I'm just not sure the two stills are needed. A bubbler will do single runs so no stripping required. Your design maybe an overkill but I guess it would work if you wanted to experiment with different still ideas and designs.
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crafty83 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:42 pm

Objective is to double distill in one go for neutral.
It will be cheaper and easier for me to have a thumper than go for a short 100ltr boiler.
Some commercial setups seem to have basically the same thing but the thumper is not under the column...
Not sure I have my own head around it yet :laughing-rolling:
I want an all in one modular that can be set up many different ways and I dont have the height, a shorter 100ltr boiler is expensive.
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby Professor Green » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:58 pm

I think what you're trying to do is an interesting concept but I also think you're overcomplicating it for a hobby still. I've got height restrictions too so I do a couple of stripping runs in my 100 litre milk can and modular pot still then combine the low wines and do a spirit run with 4 plates and a packed section on the same milk can boiler (which only just fits in my 2.4m high shed with 3mm to spare!) and it makes excellent neutral.

What is the maximum height you can run to?

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crafty83 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:42 pm

[quote="Professor Green"]I think what you're trying to do is an interesting concept but I also think you're overcomplicating it for a hobby still. I've got height restrictions too so I do a couple of stripping runs in my 100 litre milk can and modular pot still then combine the low wines and do a spirit run with 4 plates and a packed section on the same milk can boiler (which only just fits in my 2.4m high shed with 3mm to spare!) and it makes excellent neutral.

What is the maximum height you can run to?

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

It may seem over complicated but it seems rather simple to me, I want to achieve the same as you in a single run, add all those stripping runs up in time and running costs, well to me it is easier to spend a bit more time building the still to save time and cost later :smile:
I would rather overkill than to have it not do all of the intended jobs I want it, or may want it to do in future :dance:
Max height under my house is 2220 to the joists 2360 to the floorboards, I don't particularly want the column close to either.
What I am most unsure of is how much wattage, what size thumper and the need for return line
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby bluc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:54 pm

How about just a large inline thumper?
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crafty83 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:00 pm

bluc wrote:How about just a large inline thumper? Rather than first boiler and alembic?


That was exactly my next thought bluc, I need to do some more research on inline thumpers, it could be a better way to go :smile:
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby A&O » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:03 pm

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding of a continuous still is a still that is constantly fed wash into the boiler so the still continues to run, 24hr a day until the wash vat is depleted.

So with this theory, could you not have a smaller boiler, 30-50l, eg a keg on its side, then hook up a feed system where a trickle of wash (approx same as output) is added into the still, most likely at the top so it starts to heat up before it trickles down to the boiler.

Good luck, and I’ll be waiting on a build thread as this is certainly a unique theory.
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crafty83 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:15 pm

A&O wrote:Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding of a continuous still is a still that is constantly fed wash into the boiler so the still continues to run, 24hr a day until the wash vat is depleted.

So with this theory, could you not have a smaller boiler, 30-50l, eg a keg on its side, then hook up a feed system where a trickle of wash (approx same as output) is added into the still, most likely at the top so it starts to heat up before it trickles down to the boiler.

Good luck, and I’ll be waiting on a build thread as this is certainly a unique theory.


I am not the best with terminology sorry :))
Not sure I want to be feeding the boiler, although it is a great concept and would certainly do the job and solve the height problem :think:
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crow » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:15 am

Yep will work as a strip and run still for neutral. As others have said inline thumper would be convenient but not essential. There are changes you could make to make that continuous but unless you are planning on being the next popcorn Sutton I can't see any reason to cock around with that concept.
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby scythe » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:58 am

So really what you have drawn is two stills.
Pot feeding a bubbler as has already been said.
This is not a continuous still as drawn.

A continuous still has a smaller volume because it does not need to hold a full wash.
20L would be enough but the key is to keep your boiler hot enough so that the drip infeed of new wash will vapourise and give up all the volotiles instantly.
Your boiler will need an outlet for boiling liquid that has been stripped of alcohols and there will also need to be a vapour trap so that vapours only go up the column and it will need to maintain a volume other wise your elements will boil dry and burn out.

At a hobby level this is too much effort, not only in the trial and error to get it to run efficiently but how to deal with the litres of heated liquid, it cannot go down a drain untill cold amd it will kill your grass and garden.

A bubbler can do it all in 1 run, but if you really want neutral then maybe a 4" boka is what you should be looking at?
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby warramungas » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:46 am

I have a low 100 liter boiler (see my signature) that cost me the cost of parts and a few bottles of 'cleaner for the bloke that welded it up for me. With an inline thumper (which is sort of what you've designed there) and 4 plates it sh$%s in the height (about 2230 ceiling like yours).
Im not knocking your design and there's no reason you can't do the design you have there but I think your scales are out a bit. A 100 liter boiler would not be 'that' much bigger than a 4" plated still even on a 20 liter thumper.
Cheers,
Warra
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crafty83 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:06 am

Well yes it is obvious that I have misunderstood the concept of continuous :))

Skythe, boka was always the easier way to go but I want to double distill when making neutral and I want to do it in one run, hence thumper, I may take some measurements and see if inline thumper will fit with decent length boka :D

Warramungas, cool setup that you have there, rather different :smile:
I want 6 plates (or at least minimum of 5) with a 500mm packed section for neutral, even with a low boiler, it will never fit especially with inline thumper :angry-banghead:
Just a concept that I am toying with in my mind and this feedback is great!
I just cannot see any way that it will meet height restriction without mounting the column next to, and lower than the top of my boiler :think:
May have to go for boka for neutral
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crow » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:19 am

before ya fire that oxy ya got some serious questions to ask yourself, like is neutral all I'll ever want to make? Yes, well a bokka might be a design to consider. Maybe? OK well then maybe look at other options or come to terms with the fact you'll need two stills one day. No? OK forget the bokka . That said your set up would work with a bokka and a pot and thumper will make a good flavoured spirit with less build cost than plates, all things to consider
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby warramungas » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:28 am

I can fit a 5th plate below a 500mm 3" packed section (4" to 3" reducer top and bottom). Just.
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crafty83 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:29 am

I have found an old dough mixing bowl that I could put another end in, it is about 150ltr volume but only 400mm high :happy-partydance:
this may just solve my height issue, if I were to build an 8" inline thumper, what would be the minimum height I could make the thumper?
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby warramungas » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:59 am

Boiler 400-500 (legs and still mount)
Column 5 plate 150x 4 = 750
Packed section 500
RC = 100-150
Top bend/blockhead allow 150

Roof 2200

2200 - that lot @ max = 150 mm

Numbers are obviously berry rough but you're going to struggle with that packed section and an inline thumper unless you shorten some components.
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby crafty83 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:30 pm

So I believe I have overcome the height issue. I have found a 150ltr tank, 700mm wide 400mm high.
Plan is to put thumper next to column and feed the column off the thumper. Column will not be fed off boiler.
There will never be any more than 120ltrs in the boiler.
Can anyone please give me feedback on what wattage I will need to feed this bad boy? I have 15amp outlet.
Was thinking 3600w and 2400w, total 6000w.
I have 30a circuit breaker on 10a circuit and same on the 15a circuit. Hoping this will be enough :think:
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Re: Continuous column build

Postby bluc » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:43 pm

Cant see why that wouldnt work.most run a 4"on 2400w flat out and adjust the deflag condenser. So maybe 3600w on a controller to fine tune.. you may want a second 2400w to speed heat up :-B
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