reflux control with temp

[googe]

Hey all. I've been thinking about this for ages and need some peoples thoughts. Could you control reflux with coolent temps?. could you have a set amount of water in a small reservoir that heats up as the column equalizes and when it hits the right temp it governes it's self and goes though the process?. Or the same idea with the small reservoir and do the refluxing with the vavle, with the idea that warmer fed rc will be more responsive. It has been talked about here alot with feeding the pc into.the.rc for better control, I thought this might be the next step, if and how to work.it out.

Cheers

[1 2many]

Anything is possible googe but how much do you want to spend ?. And you are giving up half of the craft of distilling ,man i thought i was lazy :laughing-rolling:

[googe]

It shouldn't cost much more, small tub/drum little.pump, I've got a.few here lol. Lazyines s is.next to godly ness ;-) :))

[1 2many]

Yeh but then you need the controll gear as in temp probes,electricaly operated valves,or solinoid valves, and the controller to do it all. Have you heard of Arduino that could run it and give you pc interaction and if you incorporate with the Processing software you will have your own customized controller with the graphical interface you choose to design, sounds ok doesn't it .Well it is BUT YOU HAVE TO LEARN TOO MUCH . And the code well it might even be on the web thats the cheap diy version. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Linny]

why bother all the trouble

use this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dual-PID-Dig ... 460840c2cb

with 2 k-type thermocouples

[Linny]

mate already does it with his t500

[1 2many]

Thats just a on off pid controller ,it can't operate positioning valves so it won't work for what googe wan'ts.

[Linny]

yep your right ,,, will need a picaxe and write your own code LOL good luck

you will probably need a k-type thermocouple on each outlet of the RC and PC . which will give a variable voltage to the PIC ... with programming you can take that input and use a 12VDC source to output a slanted DC to a solenoid. and also power to a 12VDC pump.

I may have or have not thought about this before :-B

[googe]

Holy snapping bat shit Batman!!, I guess I asked for it with my first question :laughing-rolling: . Let's just go with the small.tank feeding the rc, that other talk is way out of my brain space!. So, main tank feeding pc, smaller tank feeding rc, water in small tank will get to a certain temp?. Just below take off temp and just over reflux temp. Have a window of say 10~20c. Fuck that sounds like a.hard thing to achieve?.

[1 2many]

yep your right ,,, will need a picaxe and write your own code LOL good luck

you will probably need a k-type thermocouple on each outlet of the RC and PC . which will give a variable voltage to the PIC ... with programming you can take that input and use a 12VDC source to output a slanted DC to a solenoid. and also power to a 12VDC pump.

I may have or have not thought about this before :-B

never Played with the picaxe but good call :D

[emptyglass]

I see what you are asking googe.
The tank size might be important, so you get enough cool water for whatever reflux time you want to achieve. When it warms up, its game on, no turning back.

A small tank with a flow controlling mechanical thermostat in line (like a car engine one), with, I dunno, maybe 70 degree set point might work.
But you are going to need some way to open it up or bypass it for full reflux.

I think a window (only need a small one) at the top or bottom would take the pain out of your reflux valve setting. Once you can see how much is going back to the boiler, you can adjust acordingly, but you can do it at the start of the run where you'd get the most benifit.

[googe]

Thanks empty, you worded that well. Good point about a by pass for full.reflux. I was wondering if the heat up time for the rc tank would include full reflux time?. No need for a by pass.

[emptyglass]

Well I was thinking you could go either way. Either use a tank the right size, like you first suggested, or you could go the thermostat raod.

The first way would take some trial and error to get it right, at the cost of a few batches/runs, but once its sussed, its sussed forever.
It wouldn't be hard, just use an oversize tank and vary the volume of its contents.
You would just have to make sure the tank/pump/plumbing can tolerate a different level of coolant, maybe a big wide tray, V's a small deep tank.

The other way would be a bit more complex to make, but might be a bit easier to dial in. Thermostats are available in many different heat ranges for the same price, they are easy to get and don't take power to run.
And they are available in so many different makes and models. But this way would give you control over trying to achieve balance.

I like where your going with the thinking, even if I don't understand why.

[bt1]

Howdy,

It's a good thing we can bounce a few ideas around for no other reason that understanding. I've re read it couple of times and I get lost on 1 point.

Flow and coolant temp is a dynamic your RC does not sit endlessly at one "setting" I don't see how a mechanical system could compensate for the changing needs.

Could I go back to the one point I know a solution for.

It has been talked about here a lot with feeding the pc into the.rc for better control, I thought this might be the next step

My new 2"/50mm 90mm, 3 x 3/4" product tubes condenser works a treat on a 4"/100mm column. It responds in near real time. It's well capable of holding the whole column in full reflux as needed. I've found with a quick reactive small volume parrot to match able to adjust abv at about the 2 pt mark...if your that keen.

Here's a shot of the new glass column in full reflux using the mini RC

http://youtu.be/INn5A34DLyg

bt1

[MacStill]

bt1,

do you think you might have a "little" flooding issue there ?

[googe]

Thanks empty, that's a good idea about the tray. I've got a coffee machine pump here that will tolerate temps, should be able to scrounge up a tray of some sort :think: . hmm ive got an old esky there, that would keep the temp stable to.I think the way you said about variing the volume is the go. Thanks bt, I do like your little rc :handgestures-thumbupleft: . I'm not that keen on adding new things onto my still ATM though, kind of want to play around with different things now I have a bubbler. Having a bubbler has really fucked with me in regards to wtf do I play with now I have a still I'm totally happy with. I just want to spend my time trying different ways to make it run how I like, just learning and sharing like you said :handgestures-thumbupleft: . Nice vid btw :D .

[SBB]

do you think you might have a "little" flooding issue there ?

:text-+1: ............WTF is going on there it shouldn't be doing that.

[Kimbo]

A wee too much power me thinks :-B

[MacStill]

That video is a perfect example of how "not" to run a bubbler, the thing is so flooded it's not funny.

Back on one of my very first runs with a bubbler on gas the top plate was overwhelmed by flooding to the point where hot ethanol shot through the condensers, the end result was a huge 3m high blue flame and a damaged shed, still and ego.

bt1, now you can take what I'm saying any way you like mate..... but you need to stop right there & maybe listen for a bit ;-)

You're throwing way too much heat at that thing, and if that's not the case your downcomers are choking (still too much heat) please fix it before you bloody kill yourself.

I just cringe and worry about seeing that vid, thinking how close you could be to disaster.

Time to re asses champ.

A worried Mac.

[1 2many]

Shit that even looks scary . But i love the rig awsome ;-)