Automatic Sectioning of the wash in a Reflux Still

by **Tim** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:36 pm

Hi everyone, I'm new to this also, I'm an ex-Army electronics technician, I wonder if this would work?
Where you have the digital thermo at the condenser in a reflux still, how about have it automatically switch solenoid valves opening and closing at the selected alcohol vaporising temperature points of the wash to separate the alcohols into different lines, this would be the same as you doing the cuts, but you would not have to monitor the run till the end, which you could have the boiler heater cut off at water temp or higher, depending on what you required out of the wash.
You would need a very precise digital thermo, and depending on what alcohol's you wanted, would go hand in hand with how many solenoid runs you would need ...

Acetone 56.5C (134F)
Methanol (wood alcohol) 64C (147F)
Ethyl acetate 77.1C (171F)
Ethanol 78C (172F)
2-Propanol (rubbing alcohol) 82C (180F)
1-Propanol 97C (207F)
Water 100C (212F)
Butanol 116C (241F)
Amyl alcohol 137.8C (280F)
Furfural 161C (322F)

These figures would have to be adjusted to your location above sea level ...
LOL I could write a phone app that would contact you when the run was complete ... and to give you progress updates of the separated alcohol quantities etc thus allowing you to sit back and get pissed ... lol :P

by **blond.chap** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:09 pm

Sorry mate I don't think it works like that, components won't separate based purely on condenser temperature. If you want a way to separate fractions you could try building a continuous column, but that wouldn't be very easy.

by **SBB** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:10 pm

Sounds to me like your going down the path of setting up the still and walking away to leave it do its job, No one here or on any other distilling site will agree that its a good idea to do that.
One of the first rules of distilling is to never leave a still unattended , to many things can go wrong to quickly.

Edit; Nor will they recommend you sit down and get pissed while operating a still either.

by **googe** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:19 pm

Will your phone tell you if there's a vapor leak and shut down the still or grab the fire extinguisher and put the fire out :laughing-rolling: . What your thinking is along the line of oil refinery, taking fractions off at given stages. I've asked this before and came up with tumble weeds flowing across the screen. At this stage in the hobby distillation it's a big ask unless you have alot of money and time to do experiments. someone will make it happen one day. Good luck.

by **MacStill** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:23 pm

I agree SBB,

If it's cheap piss that counts go buy a flagon, get drunk and be hungover.

If distilling is too labour intensive & you don't want to spend time enjoying the hobby then perhaps it's time one asks themselves "what's the point"

We on this forum enjoy the time we spend sitting around changing jars, fiddling in the shed & being left alone for a few hours to run our stills.

I haven't even mentioned the safety aspect of an unattended still.

:angry-banghead:

by **googe** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:25 pm

googe wrote: someone will make it happen one day.

Which will be a sad day because running a still is like sex, if your not into it and enjoying it you might as well watch someone else do it.

by **onmeth** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:29 pm

Sounds like something a council worker would do :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

by **DrunkASAskunk** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:35 pm

sounds like a path that someone els wanted to go down few days ago with a car thermostat

by **JayD** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:39 pm

this subject generally gives every one the irrates, a safe still is one that is monitored and is part of the experience.

by **MacStill** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:40 pm

not more than 3 or 4 metres from my still this arvo I dealt with some customers, built myself a new controller, had a chat to a mate on the fone, a couple of beers, played tug o war with Zak and generally had a great arvo....

if I sat in the house on my fat arse watching TV waiting for an alarm to signal the run was over, well I would've missed out on having a great arvo.... fuck that!

by **JayD** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:42 pm

It's good to see you thinking but I think your heading down the wrong path with this one.

by **DrunkASAskunk** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 pm

MacStill wrote:not more than 3 or 4 metres from my still this arvo I dealt with some customers, built myself a new controller, had a chat to a mate on the fone, a couple of beers, played tug o war with Zak and generally had a great arvo....

if I sat in the house on my fat arse watching TV waiting for an alarm to signal the run was over, well I would've missed out on having a great arvo.... fuck that!

:text-+1: :text-imwithstupid: :text-lol:

by **Tim** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:46 pm

LOL I wasn't suggesting leaving the still unattended ... "Contact" was probably the wrong word "Inform" would have been better ... That is why my emoticon was a tongue hanging out, what I was suggesting was that you could get better separated cuts, without having to change jars ... And you could kick back and have it all unfold in front of you, the app would be a log so that you could access the information at a later date with the type of wash, how it separated, quantities etc ... and all in all it is just an idea!
Holy Crap ... I don't even have a still yet, still trying to make up my mind which avenue to choose to replace Vodka for the wife and Wild Turkey for me ... maybe reflux ... maybe plated ...

by **Sam.** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:05 pm

Ok I will play along. What part of the stills operation are you suggesting to control with this system? And what type of still?

by **DrunkASAskunk** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:16 pm

I think when it comes to bringing tech in to the hobby the sky is the limit. But why I am new to the the hobby but I would not want to change any thing I love the idear of trying to make my booze as close to the ways they have been for the last 200 years. But then this is a hill billy / bogan / red neck hobby and thats the way I was brought up. I also have few other red neck hobbys that I love to do on week ends :)) Where I am heading with this is if you dont have a still yet then make one and you will see what I meen. No need for tech.

by **Tim** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:17 pm

I was looking at the CM Reflux, as the temp of the wash increased and the condenser temp increased to the vapour temps of the different alcohols, the system would output the condensed alcohol until the liquid stopped flowing, then would switch to a new line and increase the boiler temp till the next level was reached, and sit there until each level was completed, this in theory would separate the alcohols better than cutting ... individual jars and abv tesing & smelling etc I maybe very wrong with this process, but I have read that as the wash heats, it gives off the different alcoholic vapours at each temperature, this is why you use the cutting method and number the jars through your run ...

by **Tim** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:22 pm

DrunkASAskunk wrote:I think when it comes to bringing tech in to the hobby the sky is the limit. But why I am new to the the hobby but I would not want to change any thing I love the idear of trying to make my booze as close to the ways they have been for the last 200 years. But then this is a hill billy / bogan / red neck hobby and thats the way I was brought up. I also have few other red neck hobbys that I love to do on week ends :))

True ... But if that was the case we would all go for a pot still and hide in the bush, use spring water, naturally ferment barley etc ... like the Moonshiners, but I am under the impression that we are trying to get the best tasting, and alcohol rich quantity product that we can :D

by **JayD** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:24 pm

yeah but we do it at hobby level and what your talking about is done by major producer and they still have a real person pushing the buttons in the control room.

by **Tim** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:25 pm

JayD wrote:yeah but we do it at hobby level and what your talking about is done by major producer and they still have a real person pushing the buttons in the control room.

LOL Jay yes your right lol Twas just a theory and a thought XD

by **DrunkASAskunk** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:27 pm

Konrad wrote:
DrunkASAskunk wrote:I think when it comes to bringing tech in to the hobby the sky is the limit. But why I am new to the the hobby but I would not want to change any thing I love the idear of trying to make my booze as close to the ways they have been for the last 200 years. But then this is a hill billy / bogan / red neck hobby and thats the way I was brought up. I also have few other red neck hobbys that I love to do on week ends :))

True ... But if that was the case we would all go for a pot still and hide in the bush, use spring water, naturally ferment barley etc ... like the Moonshiners, but I am under the impression that we are trying to get the best tasting, and alcohol rich quantity product that we can :D

hey I got a pot still and I hide it in the bushes and stuff :D