Advice for water tank + pressure pump

by **bcg1976** » Mon May 27, 2013 11:49 am

Hi,

First post. Hoping this is roughly the right place for it being part electrical but mostly plumbing.

I have a water tank that I'm thinking of putting near the shed that the still setup is going in. Tank will be a bit lower than the shed with a short run of pipe of about 3m. I'm thinking of putting in a pressure actuated pump. Probably a cheapie from Bunnings (anyone know if the XU1 pumps are shit or not?).

My question is around suitability. Since it's only going to be one tap with about 1Hp of pressure pump (can't seem to find much smaller than 800w) I'm worried that it will be a bit crap without a return line. Or maybe rather than a pressure pump a trickle feed to a pigeon tank and gravity feed the way to go?

Anyone done something like this with just one pump and one tap? How does a pressure pump go when the tap is on low suitable to for a still?

Cheers,
Brad

by **blond.chap** » Mon May 27, 2013 11:55 am

Hey mate, welcome.

The "commercial electric" pumps from bunnings work fine. From memory they have 300W, 500W and 750W models for around $80.

It's worth putting a V fitting on so there's pressure relief if you turn it off.

Alternatively, a little 12V, 3A bilge pump (you can get them on ebay) work pretty well provided it doesn't have to go too high.

by **bcg1976** » Mon May 27, 2013 12:08 pm

Those ones aren't pressure actuated though are they?

Thinking of a pressure pump since it's a neater solution eg Turn tap on pump starts.

I've picked up an old commercial sink and what I was thinking of doing was plumbing in one normal sink tap (for filling the kettle for cups of tea in the shed) and then the other to some brass fittings suitable for sticking the condensor hose on properly. The more I think about it having a adjustable return line on the condensor tap will be the way to go.

JUst don't know if the cheapo pressure pumps are smart enough to know that a tap is only on a little bit not to go flat knackers when they don't have to.

by **Dominator** » Mon May 27, 2013 12:22 pm

A pressure pump is exactly that. It switches on and off with pressure. It is either flat out on or off. They usually switch on at 20-30psi and off at 40-50psi. If you only require a small amount of flow the pump will cut in and out as required.

by **MacStill** » Mon May 27, 2013 12:24 pm

Dominator wrote:A pressure pump is exactly that. It switches on and off with pressure. It is either flat out on or off. They usually switch on at 20-30psi and off at 40-50psi. If you only require a small amount of flow the pump will cut in and out a required if that makes sense.

And that makes it pretty much useless for our situation, unless it has the pressure regulator removed and have a relief line.... that's why the submersibles are so popular, they'll run all day even if the flow is restricted :handgestures-thumbupleft:

by **bcg1976** » Mon May 27, 2013 1:12 pm

Right, so you reckon it might be choppy even with a relief line MacStill?

Considered the submersible, but really looking for everything to run off the taps rather than switches etc.

The other thing I had though about, even though it's getting a bit complicated plumbing wise (though will look awesome as a chemistry set :-) ), is to have a pressure pump feed to a side entry cistern valve in a 30L tank in the shed roof. Then have the still line gravity feed from that.

by **cdbrown** » Mon May 27, 2013 1:13 pm

I got one of these - http://www.clicktobuy.com.au/tle8a-hous ... p-108.html - but also use it for watering the garden. When running it on the condensor, I just have a hose return the water to the top of the tank. With all the hose lengths it probably pushes through the same amount of water as the garden tap turned on fully.

by **bcg1976** » Mon May 27, 2013 1:26 pm

Damn good point cdbrown. I keep thinking I want it on as a trickle... Got a pure distilling reflux which, I'm led to believe as I'm yet to do my first run, the water can go through it as quick as you want (within reason). The part of my brain thinking about plumbing is still stuck on to when I was going to get a T500 - which I believe are more sensitive to water pressure.

Willing to be corrected here before I start plumbing.

by **blond.chap** » Mon May 27, 2013 1:28 pm

Gravity fed sounds fine to me, as long as it has enough pressure to overcome the friction of passing through the condenser(s). May be best off having a sump of some kind to pump back up to your tank.

by **Yummyrum** » Mon May 27, 2013 11:02 pm

First off ,I'm on tank water so I have a pressure pump.When I first started distilling I had a Still Spirits Reflux from the HBS.
It was shit on a pressure pump as these are coolant management (CM) stills and rely on a constant water flow for stable reflux so I used to set up an old fermenter tank about 2-3 meters high up and gravity feed it the still .It worked fine .

Now with a VM still I can run quite OK off the house pressure pump.But...

Problem that I have is that these new house pressure pumps have "leak detector smarts " built in which is designed to detect a leak and throttle back the amount of water flow per hour so you don't drain your tank.That means that when I'm doing a run over many hours ,the rest of the household has to suffer shit water flow .

So.. I bought a submersible 350watt bunnos pump and used it in the 2000lt tank next to the shed last run .Problem solved all round

by **Linno** » Mon May 27, 2013 11:22 pm

Yummy is on to it mate

I am in the same boat and tried the pressure pump as that is our main supply.
Everything said in this thread is true. Mine used to hunt on and off
At the low pressures - I had the pure distill rig to start. It would cut in and out and then my
Leak detection would kick in and it trips itself out so as not to drain
Ur water supply. U will be much better off with a submersible pump either in ur
Existing tanks or an ibc.

by **bcg1976** » Tue May 28, 2013 7:55 am

Thanks for all the replies.

Now I'm thinking I'm just going to have to plumb them separately as the last two posts are suggesting that it would probably hunt on my cistern/gravity feed idea as well - the still would run fine but the pump cutting in and out every 5 seconds would probably drive me mad while watching the still as the pump will be in the shed.

Looks like I'll push the boat out and get a pressure pump for my tap and a submersible for the rig and switch it.

Thanks guys. Will post results when it's done.

by **Yummyrum** » Tue May 28, 2013 8:56 am

When I used the gravity tank ,I would wait until it was just about empty and fill it up .I had a hose that pushed on the end of the kitchen sink tap.

Worked OK while my mind was on the job .had a few cold showers though. :laughing-rolling:

I came up with a cunning plan to have two float switches and a solenoid system to automatically fill to the top,switch off ,then switch on when water had almost gone.This was to overcome the Pressure pump "Smarts" .....but being the gunna I am,...well ....