Long time lurker, first time poster.. first time TPW..

[GFC07]

Hi all,

I've been using the father in-laws still now for nearly 6 months and have been doing turbo washes.
I have 5 x 30 litre fermentors that i also use for brewing beer with. i used to have 2 going for spirits and 3 for beers.
Still is a 50 litre keg 1500w element with a home made copper reflux still head on top.
Being producing fairly good results with my current washes to date but have now stepped up a little recently.

Put down my first tomato paste wash this weekend just gone, on a chance acquisition dirt cheep off gum-tree for a 200 liter plastic drum with lid.
Down to Aldi on the way home from picking up the drum.
50kg of sugar (aldi)
1.5kg ot tomato paste (Aldi)
Full tin of lowans bakers yeast (280g)
teaspoon of citric acid powder

Mixed the sugar with new paint strirrer and the drill with about 40 litres of hot tap water.
Filling with cold water to about 180 litres.
Mixed the tomato paste with some hot water and mixed that in good also.
Put about 500g of sugar into 3.5ltr of water and mixed in half the yeast and let it sit for about 30-40 min until was foaming like a fat kid mouth at a chees cake shop.
Chucked all that in with some citic acid powder and half a box of Wheaties i mashed in hot water also.
Mixed it all for about 5-8 min with the drill to introduce heaps of air.
That was Sunday its Thursday and has been fairly cold here last few days up-to 20c in the day and down to about 5 at nights.

How long will this amount of wash take to ferment do you think?

In hoping to make a stock pile of wash in 15l 20l cubes to clear, and also so i can free up fermentors for beers instead of washes, (i love beer :music-deathmetal: ) and do 200 liter batches of wash every so many weeks instead.
Im thinking i can do 100 ltrs of wash through the still on a 2 day weekend, i generally get around 6 to 8 liters @ 92-95 % currently with turbos from about 48 litres, takes me 8 or 9 hours the way i do it, as i only take the Alcohol of at about 10-15 ml per min, so that i ensure that it is re-fluxed thoroughly. I also remove the first 500-750ml of runnings, then reflux 100% for about 10-15min then start to take of the product.
I generally cut into 1 ltr glass preserving jars, stop collecting product around 80 deg, turn off when temp hits 85 - 87.
But i may experiment and try doing some strip runs with the re-flux still (if its possible) and get a larger qty of lower % spirits and rerun on a slow spirit run?

Im hoping at the end of the day i can get about 20 - 25 liters of good product @ 92 - 95 % from my large batch?
I've read the yield wont be anywhere near the yield of Turbo's

Im still new so go easy on me,

cheers

[Sam.]

Welcome mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:

If you can strip through your still definitely do that instead of storing wash in cubes, low wines take up less space and that way you are also double distilling.

I find I can fit in a heap of small strip runs then dedicate a whole day for a big arse spirit run (talking TPW here I only single run my whiskys in my bubbler).

At a rough guide you can expect about a litre of 40% for every kg of sugar used (before cuts) :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I would try and get the temp up a bit as well, starting a batch that size a bit warmer will help as being a big thermal mass it takes a lot to shift temp, wrap in a blanket etc.

[woodduck]

G'day GFC07, welcome :greetings-waveyellow:

Sounds like your on to it mate :handgestures-thumbupleft: you won't go back to turbos once you've done a TPW, like chalk and cheese mate. Especially when you've done it with good cuts. If you don't do cuts already you should have a look into it, it makes all the difference.
http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2859

good luck with the still'n mate and let us know what you think of the TPW once it's done.

[GFC07]

Thanks for the encouragement guys,

The still I have is the reflux type with a column 50-60mm dia (as normal) which is stuffed with pot scrubbers, which has "T" installed toward the top of the column, off the T in the column it goes to an open topped chamber approx. 4" dia which has a coil that is liquid cooled soldered into it.
The vapor rises up the column, through the "T" into the open top chamber, then the vapor condenses drops to the bottom of the condensing chamber then either flows back through the "reflux" value to the column or it goes out the product collection line.
I honestly haven't seen many of this kind of still anywhere online, I think it is a liquid management reflux still but not certain.
Soon as I work out how to compress my photos i'll bang up some piccys of the old girl, is pobly about ten years old now and could do with a nice polish up.

My questions are:
If I am going to do a strip run, do I still discard the first 400-500 ml (as is poison) of Alcohol?
Do I completely close the reflux valve and just let the product straight out the product collecting line?
Do I need to wash my still out (scrubbers & internals) after the stripping run, so as not to impart flavors into the reflux run of the low spirits?
Whats the best thing to clean the internals of a still out with?

Pondering whether to make another "pot" still head to fit my existing keg boiler, or just make another complete still?

ill let you know how I get on,

Cheers guys,

[Urrazeb]

...
My questions are:
If I am going to do a strip run, do I still discard the first 400-500 ml (as is poison) of Alcohol?
Do I completely close the reflux valve and just let the product straight out the product collecting line?
Do I need to wash my still out (scrubbers & internals) after the stripping run, so as not to impart flavors into the reflux run of the low spirits?
Whats the best thing to clean the internals of a still out with?

Pondering whether to make another "pot" still head to fit my existing keg boiler, or just make another complete still?
....

Hi and Welcome.

Here's my :twocents-mytwocents: but my opinion will likely differ from others

1. Yes, foreshot cuts are taken on every run. Strip or spirit. You can get away with a smaller cut on the strip, I take approx 300ml off a 45L charge on a spirit run and would take approx 150ml on a strip. The smearing of heads into fores are going to be undrinkable anyway so nothing lost. Please note this is not "alcohol" it is a mixture of nasty compounds produced by the yeast while fermenting that come off first due to their extremely low boiling point, never call it alcohol.

2. You'll need to post a pic of your rig, generally you adjust the still (vapour, coolant, liquid) to give you a very thin, steady stream for a decent neutral.

3. Citric acid will work wonders on a still. Use 2 T per 15L of hot water, rinse and repeat once more.

4. If your current rig is easily removed off the keg then definitely build another head, a 3in pot with 400mm 3in Shotty PC will strip the shit outta anything. If your still head is hard to remove then I'd build another rig altogether, then you can have one stripping while one does the spirit run, but it all depends on your situation, cooling, funds, time, etc etc.

Have fun :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[GFC07]

Here is some picture i took of the still back in summer.

I was pretty happy with the % of alcohol after i cooled down the product to the temp advised on the alchomometer

[Urrazeb]

She's an offset CM design mate.

Please don't take anything below personal but I have some criticisms about this rig. Nothing against you but I want you to make the healthiest & best hooch possible!

Couple of first tips... lose the plastic, all of it, the tube the cylinder all of it, drinking alcohol should never touch plastic under any circumstances, that is the community policy and it wouldn't surprise me if your pictures were removed.

Ok now that's outta the way, the keg has been wasted IMO by fitting that large bowl and clamp type set up to it instead of leaving the existing ferrule and having a tri clamp set up, but it's done.

I would personally replace the keg with another, leaving the 2in ferrule and any still head would be made to fit a 2in tri-clamp for easy changeover.

The other keg can be topped and used as a mash tun or other boiling vessel - go crabbing much? :)

I would have plans to probably upgrade the whole rig as the solder used could be lead based and is not uncommon from some builders.

This is assuming of course that the rig is yours to modify... if not I would leave it as is but remove all plastic at the bare minimum.

Hope I could help a little and please understand this is not personal - just some observations.

[GFC07]

No real offense taken, water of a ducks back, but i do have some feed back on your constructive criticisms,

OK just to clarify a little, I'm a noob,

I now have a glass 250ml measuring chemistry cylinder not a plastic one to measure % of Al with my alchometer,
The still to date consistently produces 94-95% Al the way i run it. (8-9 hrs to do a 50l batch of wash) check the piccy for the evidence.

The tube running from the product outlet is silicone, not plastic/pvc. However i will now eliminate that taking on board your advice, i will extend the copper tube i use as the product dispenser.

With regard to the hole in the top of the keg, this was the original design from 10 years or so ago that the father in-law built the design from. (as you can see from the color of it)
I personally think this is a good method for little to no outlay money wise, it also allows me to thoroughly clean the internals of the keg/boiler, i can also easily adapt other "heads" to the "stainless mixing bowl" , or get a similar sized bowl to easily adapt with a "pot head" (those were the days) or what ever i want to do with.

As you said i can also do all grain brewing with the current set up, so i reject your comments and substitute with my own that i should get another keg for a boiler, i see no benefits only limitations from your argument there, plus i don't have to pay someone else for fancy connectors and such.

Please don't get me wrong, If we all had shit loads of cash we would all have a 6 plate column stills with sexy sight ports with 2000ltr fermentors and such, I'm new and starting out excited and have the horn for everything i can learn and generally with every other hobby ive had, i jump in head first and learn to swim later on.

I'm a fridgee by trade (fix fridges and AC's/Coolrooms) and from memory i gave the father inlaw 25% silver solder for all the joints for the still 10 or so year's ago, so i have no concerns with the lead content with the joins, plumber use higher lead % than that for water anyways,

so had a few home brew stouts and a few whiskey chasers, and have decided im making a "Ducks head plate still" as soon as the sheds fished, and the pergola, and the fernery and the pool area and the decking and the out dorr kitchen area :-)

cheers for the advice
Cork gasket between the "head" and the mixing bowl eliminate any contamination as i am lead to believe

[scythe]

Problem with cork is what binds it.
silicone baking sheet would be big enough to make a gasket from, for your sized opening and would be the best option i reckon.

Essentially the stainless mixing bowl is acting as a simple-ish triclamp setup.
so its cool if you want to keep using small stills and are happy with the extra slow take off rate.
but if you get tired of wasting a day sitting next to a still and want to upgrade to a 4" bubbler it may not cut it.

Best thing about stilling is the lack of hygiene required compared to beer, dont have to clean your still that often unless to boil it too low and get some wash cooked on your elements.

I wouldnt say that i have lots of money to spend, quite the opposite actually, but 4" bubbler is clearly the best option for me, its gunna take me a while to build but I'm not in a huge rush yet.
you being a fridgie would have access to 4" copper quite easily so why wouldnt you do it?

but if all your after is hooch then carry on as you are.

[Urrazeb]

...

but if all your after is hooch then carry on as you are.

:text-+1: :text-imwithstupid:

[GFC07]

Please don't get me wrong, If we all had shit loads of cash we would all have a 6 plate column stills with sexy sight ports with 2000ltr fermentors and such, I'm new and starting out excited and have the horn for everything i can learn and generally with every other hobby I've had, i jump in head first and learn to swim later on.

Please don't take my enthusiasm as arrogance, i want to make the best product i can, I've made "Hooch" for a while now hence joining the forum.
As I also brew my own beer, it make more sense to have a multi tasked boiler.

Retired fridgee, progressed significantly from that profession,

Point taken with regards to the cork gasket, ill keep a look out for silicone mat next time i'm at the supermarket.

I'm researching a new set up, multi plate boiler is definitely in the future, was really wanting to know if what i already have could be used to strip TWP then run low wines slowly as i would normally a turbo wash, i have to work with what i have for the time being.

Also Does anyone have any PDF's for a 3"-4" pot still head that are a lessons learnt type of setup, or link to the best one going?

Thanks in advance,

Cheers,

[Urrazeb]

The best one will be the one that is suited to you and your needs, there is no perfect design and very few who have designed these things over years of trial and error are willing to give away their intellectual property on the internet.

Just what I have seen over the years anyway.

[Irritable]

I'm on a steep learning curve but learning nonetheless and I've been battling a little myself of late...what to do.

Seems to me there is no such thing as a perfect still that will do all things (without mods).
Every still tastes different.
A more pure neutral doesnt mean a better tasting neutral.
Your still has its own characteristics and once you learn exactly what they are, then you can - with due care - output a quality product, regardless of any perceived(or real) design flaws.

Personally - if I had a still with a bit of personal history, then I'd not want to mess with it - I'd learn its strengths and produce product based on that. It might be pulling lower abv's (like mine is in some configs) but that will mean some flavour will be coming through, making it unique.
If you want to move to other outputs, then get something that is dedicated to the job your trying to do.
This is just my op on my very short experiences.
Si.

[GFC07]

Bit of an update,

After a few weeks of waiting for the TPW to finish in the 200ltr drum, i went to the fish shop about 2 or 3 weeks ago and got a 200w aquarium heater, hole in the lid and dropped it in with t he temp set at 36. Wash dropped OG consistently for the next few days and ended at around 998.

So last weekend was pretty big, i did 2 45-47l batches on the sat and 1 on the Sun and another 2 on the monday ended up with around 23lt @ 93%.

I've loaded up the still this morn with 20l of spirits @ 93 and 25 ltr of water to bring to around 40%.

Ive taken off 400ml of poison and ive just taken off 2 700ml bottle of heads and i think i can taste the hearts comin on?
Im hoping to get at least 15ltrs of quality shite, fingers crossed.

Also ive upgrade the still a fraction, ive removed all plastics, and now have a silicone seal on top of the keg replacing the exertion rubber one that was there previously. Also just got two kegs welded together and are planning to make a 3" pot and reflux still (undecided as to type as yet) soon.

So far the TPW is shitting all over the turbo stuff, i concur with every other mofo whom has been converted to the TPW washes.
They rock