Keg Still design feedback

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Keg Still design feedback

Postby theseksi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:20 pm

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum and to the distilling world but I'm almost ready to build my first pot still.

I'm currently using an electric setup for my homebrew. However, I would like to use my electric control panel/element to distill.

Image

My setup would be:

A 50L Keg with a PID controlled 5500W element (I can control the power output in %)
A 6" Tri clamp concentric reducer to 2" (might not be necessary?)

Image

Then I would have my 500mm column: 2" copper pipe fitted with the necessary 2" tri clamp at the bottom.
Then the elbow with a thermometer to watch vapor's temperature leading to a Liebieg condenser: 900mm condenser 1" over 3/4"

Everything will be Tig Welded.

Is my build realistic? Is my column tall enough? Should I go the shotgun way instead of such a long Liebieg condenser? Is my concentric reducer really a waste of time?

Thank you!
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby Sam. » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:25 pm

Moved your post here as it's your first, so welcome here :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Have you already got a 6" opening on your keg? If not then yeah it's a waste of time unless you wan't to put one on for cleaning or your going to make a larger diameter still down the track. Be aware a 2 inch still will be slow.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby theseksi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:34 pm

Sam. wrote:Moved your post here as it's your first, so welcome here :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Have you already got a 6" opening on your keg? If not then yeah it's a waste of time unless you wan't to put one on for cleaning or your going to make a larger diameter still down the track. Be aware a 2 inch still will be slow.


Thank you for the quick response.

Would a 3" column be enough or should I go even bigger ?

I do not have a big opening for cleaning already but maybe using a traditional 6" tri clamp on the side would be cheaper.

As for my condenser is it big enough or I should go with a shotgun?
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby Sam. » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:09 pm

The condenser will do the job fine. If it's within your skill level then a shotgun could be used down the track on a bubbler if you go that way.

On a 50L keg I reckon a 4" pot still is ideal and you won't spend all your time sitting in front of it. This is of course if your willing to pay for the materials.

A 6" ferrule off to the side would be great for cleaning and also filling, want to look at a drain too if you haven't already :handgestures-thumbupleft:

You will find plenty of inspiration in the pot still section. ;-)
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby theseksi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:23 pm

Sam. wrote:The condenser will do the job fine. If it's within your skill level then a shotgun could be used down the track on a bubbler if you go that way.

On a 50L keg I reckon a 4" pot still is ideal and you won't spend all your time sitting in front of it. This is of course if your willing to pay for the materials.

A 6" ferrule off to the side would be great for cleaning and also filling, want to look at a drain too if you haven't already :handgestures-thumbupleft:

You will find plenty of inspiration in the pot still section. ;-)


Well this build is mainly inspired from all the different pot still build in the pot still section!

Would I perceive a difference in taste if I distill some whiskey using a shotgun? What would be the optimal Liebieg (outer and inner tube) condenser size you would recommend with the 4" column?
Last edited by theseksi on Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby Sam. » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:13 pm

If you can pick a difference in taste between product condensers you are doing better than me.

the 1" over 3/4" at 900 long would prob still be enough for the 4 inch, it all depends how hard you want to strip, that's where the shotgun will come into it's own.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby woodduck » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:20 pm

Hi mate welcome :greetings-waveyellow:

If money and or skill level is no issue I would definitely go for a shotgun condenser as it will knock down more vapour making the still quicker to run plus you can use it on a bubbler if you ever want to upgrade.

6" would be good for cleaning but aren't real cheap. If you get the right keg a 2" tri clamp will fit straight on.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby theseksi » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:28 am

For the height of the column? What would you recommend?

I decided to go with a 2" x 20" shotgun with 7 x 3/8 copper tube inside. I just need to figure out my copper column height now. I'm looking into producing "flavored" spirits. I don't need to be as clean as vodka.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby woodduck » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:56 am

Shotty sounds alright :handgestures-thumbupleft: 5x 1/2" would be easier to build but if you already have the 3/8 run with it.
I would probably go for about 500mm colomn hight for a pot. With a pot you won't get neutrals unless you do a hell of a lot of runs and even then it wont be great.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby RC Al » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:17 pm

So how dose the condenser design calc on HD hold up against real life?
https://homedistiller.org/calcs/cond_calc
with his 5500w it wants a lieburg 2-2.5m long, in 3/4 bore
dropping down to 1/2 raises it up to 3+m - divide by 5 for a 5 barrel shotgun? 600mm long?
3/8 would be 4+m divide by 7? 600mm again, but pretty sure the 5x1/2 would outflow it? (1/2 is almost twice the area of 3/8)
Last edited by RC Al on Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby scythe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:30 pm

Not sure about 5500w but 4800w can be condensed by a 2" with 4 × 1/2" inners.
Depends on how hard you push your still.
If you try to collect at 10L/hr you might be generating enough vapours to push past but i dunno.

The goal is to condense all vapours and make the output as close to 20°C so you dont have to temp correct your parrot reading.

But i guess the most important thing will be your cooling water temp, a condenser using 50°C water won't work as well as a condenser using 10°C water.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby woodduck » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:39 pm

Not sure about the science but my 2" 5x 1/2" inners at 500mm long can knock down 6000w. I do that every time I strip tails. It doesn't get hot at all, the alc temp might jump a bit I guess, I've never looked.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby RC Al » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:08 pm

WD/SC Is that on bubblers? Bubblers reduce the amount of heat/product the PC sees (from my research)
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby woodduck » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:08 pm

True but I still recon it would be fine. The only time you will be running flat out would be on a strip run where the % wouldnt be as critical so you would only need to temp correct near the end if you were worried.

Hopefully some people that run pots will chime in and let us know. I'm happy to be corrected as I don't want to give miss information :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby bluc » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:19 pm

I had a pot with liebig 700mm cooling jacket 1" over 3/4. I have read the same length in 3/4 over 1/2 will knock 2400w also. mine knocked down 2000w easy. As much power as I ever threw at it. Main reason for longer liebigs is to get output away from gas flame when running gas. My current shotty is 320mm 5x 1/2" tubes. And it knocks down 3600w easy. 5500w I reakon you want a shotty :handgestures-thumbupleft: standard round here is 400-450mm long with 4 3/4 pipes or 5/6 or I think even 7 1/2" tubes. They knock down 4800w I reakon they could knock down 5500w. If your woried extend length to 500mm but I reakon 400-450mm will handle it fine. My 320mm one at 3600w is cold full length. I back cooling water off a tad to stop huffing..
Last edited by bluc on Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby dans.brew » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:31 pm

My pot has a 700mm liebig 3/4 inch over 1/2 inch, running a 2000w boiler. Seems to do the trick. One thing to keep in mind though... if you run a condenser near its peak in the warmer months the output temp can get up there a bit, usually due to the water flow through the condenser being warmer.
Mainly a problem on stripping runs when element is running flat out.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby theseksi » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:23 am

Update time.

Thank you guys for all the tips and feedback you provided.

Here is link to an imgur album where you will see the build in progress. Everything is 2" diameter. The shotgun is 7 * 3/8 ID x 24" long.

https://imgur.com/a/8lxul2m

The next step is to braze the tri-clamp ferrule to the copper 2" column and to weld the 6" and 4" ferrule to the keg.

Cheers!
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby theseksi » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:38 am

Did a water only run today.

Running at 5500W the water knocked down by the condenser was coming out at 19C and the water coming out of the condenser outlet was at 14C.

Both the condenser and the element were running at full blast for testing purpose.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby dans.brew » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:00 am

Going well mate! :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Good to hear she is going well. Exciting times when you load her up with your first spirit/strip run! What spirits will you be throwing at her?
If i was doing my pot again i prob would go shotty too.
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Re: Keg Still design feedback

Postby RC Al » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:13 am

Awesome, sounds like you have nailed it, middle of summer will be the real test :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Do you know what your water inlet temp was?
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