Total Newbie

[Mitcon]

Hello all,
Total newbie from Adelaide thinking of starting out, I know pretty much nothing about stills or distilling for that matter so I'm certain I'll have a ton of reading on these forums which I thank you all in advance for. All I do know is I like drinking the stuff lol, I think I'll be going for a reflux type to make neutral as all the family enjoy different drinks and cocktails etc. I might one day want to try doing mashes at a later point in time as I do love bourbon (the uncle jessie recipe already has my interest) so I may also get a pot type later on.

I'm most likely going to start out with maybe the T500 (I know I can hear y'all already, the mistake most noobs make) reflux beginners kit as it has everything needed. I'm not in any rush though as there's lots to read and I need to save/find monies first :crying-blue: . So that's about it for now, just a "G'Day" and I'm lurking/reading and want to thank you all in advance for the information and help you share.

I certainly will be asking some really daft noob questions at times also, heck first one is what type of water is best used downunder? Adelaide water "shudder", maybe spring water would be better lol. I'll keep other questions till I'm reading through the appropriate sections :mrgreen:

Cheers Mitcon

[Arismac]

Welcome Mitcon,

Please, don't believe all the "bad" stuff you read about the T500. It took me some time, with a great deal of help from this forum to "tame the beast" but I now like the T500 a lot. It is producing a good quality neutral spirit which is ideal for mixing with a very big range of flavours. Add a Water Flow Regulator and a one kilo roll of copper mesh from the 5 Star Store and read the very excellent thread on Running the T500 the proper way and you will be enjoying your new hobby quite soon.

[Banga81]

Welcome Mate,
Newbie here myself. Im just about to run my first wash through the T500. I bought from a HBS before reading this forum. I guess after all the reading on this forum, the thing that annoyed me the most about the T500 is its not recommended to do stripping runs on it as it has plastic parts on it that may melt with the temps required to do a stripping run. Instead i will be running it through the still twice. Alot more time consuming.
My advice is read up on stripping runs and whether you want to be able to do them and then make the decision as to whether or not you want to purchase the T500.
cheers

[Ravvin]

Welcome to the forum. :greetings-waveyellow:

If you plan on starting with the T500, you can save a fair bit of money by just getting what you need. Forget the kits.
Start of by pricing the boiler, T500 still head, a fermentor drum and airlock, a hydrometer to check your starting and ending specific gravity, an alcoholometer to measure your neutral spirit and maybe some cleaning compound and steriliser.
Forget their Turboyeast, Turbosugar, charcoal liquid and plastic carbon filter.
You really don't need anything else they sell until you want to start flavouring your neutral.
If you start out doing the tomato paste washes, it costs about $7 a fermenter full. Far cheaper and way better result than the Turbo Sugar washes.
Before you decide to buy, go read the section here on running a T500 correctly and safely. https://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=10483
Then read the section explaining cuts. https://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2859 It makes a huge difference to the end product and helps you understand the way the different compounds come off the wash at different times.
After that, come ask lots of questions and maybe see if there is anyone on here who is nearby, who can actually show you the process. It would take a lot of the stress out of your first run by seeing how simple it really is if you do it the right way.
Something to remember with the flavouring of neutral spirits is you probably won't get a drink exactly like what you buy in the bottle shop. At least, not twice in a row. :))
Make something you like and make notes of what works and what doesn't. So far, I've found I love the Still Spirits Marula flavouring, but found their Ouzo weak and insipid. Same with other flavours. Oh, and if you like hazelnuts, the Willards Hazelnut Liqueur comes out just like Frangellico and is awesome in coffee. Or over icecream.
I have also found that most mixes need to be left in the bottle for at least 2 weeks for the flavours to even out. I give them a shake each day and open them to check how the smell is changing.
Have your friends start collecting bottles too. Here's another frustration. Most of these flavourings make either a 750 or 1125ml batch. Most spirit bottles in Australia now seem to be 700ml. I was lucky and had 6 of the 1.5L Stones bottles, so I marked a line on the side for 1125ml and use those. I also found a friend who's family is in a wine club and go through loads of it. Standard wine bottles are 750ml so she collects all their clear ones for me. Buy a box of sticky labels and mark them with what you made and when you bottled it. Once in a clear bottle, the Jack Daniels mix looks just like the Southern Comfort mix. They smell very similar for the first week or so. :-D

Greg.

[Arismac]

Welcome Mate,
Newbie here myself. Im just about to run my first wash through the T500. I bought from a HBS before reading this forum. I guess after all the reading on this forum, the thing that annoyed me the most about the T500 is its not recommended to do stripping runs on it as it has plastic parts on it that may melt with the temps required to do a stripping run. Instead i will be running it through the still twice. Alot more time consuming.

True it is a bit more time consuming but the double stilling produces a very good quality spirit. I work to this time line:

Day Zero. Start two 23 litre fermentors on TPW using Pure Distilling "Premium Spirit Yeast"
Day Seven. (subject to ambient temperature). Run still at 55C. Still first fermentor produces 3.8 litres rough spirit at 92%AbV
Day Eight. Repeat day seven with second fermentor.
Day Nine. Clean/change copper in T500 column. Return both "rough" spirit batches back to still and fill to "maximum" line on T500. AbV reduces to 40%. Take 100mls "heads. Collect 7.5 litres of good quality neutral.

[Arismac]

I have also found that most mixes need to be left in the bottle for at least 2 weeks for the flavours to even out. I give them a shake each day and open them to check how the smell is changing.
Have your friends start collecting bottles too. Here's another frustration. Most of these flavourings make either a 750 or 1125ml batch. Most spirit bottles in Australia now seem to be 700ml. I was lucky and had 6 of the 1.5L Stones bottles, so I marked a line on the side for 1125ml and use those. I also found a friend who's family is in a wine club and go through loads of it. Standard wine bottles are 750ml so she collects all their clear ones for me. Buy a box of sticky labels and mark them with what you made and when you bottled it. Once in a clear bottle, the Jack Daniels mix looks just like the Southern Comfort mix. They smell very similar for the first week or so. :-D

Greg.

I pay $4.50 each for 1125ml at my local brew shop but they are good quality and don't break easily ... :obscene-drinkingdrunk:

[Mitcon]

Wow, thanks for the welcome and helpful info.

Reading a bit today, I'm not put off the T500 system as the flaws have been pretty much covered on how to improve here on the forum. Which reflux head would you guys suggest, what's the difference between the copper Vs stainless. I notice they do a pot head/manifold (what's the correct term used ? )for the boiler so that might be something for me later on if I go the mashes route for a play.

That TPW sounds interesting and that would have to be a bit cheaper also, it doesn't have any funky smell/tastes left ? I'll have to find that in the forum and have a read for sure, I'm a big fan of cheaper (part of reason for wanting to distill :happy-partydance: ) I wasn't joking about water, what do folks use mostly? Any reason for running water/cooling side of things I can't use a tub of water and a pump instead of mains, I hate wasting water.

Doing a double run/distill doesn't bother me as I'm retired and time rich, as for essence what's everyone favourite bourbon? I quite like Wild Turkey and Old Virginia but hate cougar and some of the other though I do love cinnamon whiskey as well as honey bourbon. Hell I like most spirit based booze and Ravvin, thank you for the tips and even more so for tip on the Willards Hazelnut Liqueur as 3 of us love Frangellico.

[Arismac]

I have a steel (SS) column which is certainly cheaper than the copper, but I only put copper saddles and copper mesh in the packing below the condenser. I use a small quantity, about 75 SS saddles above the copper saddles in the reflux zone.

My TPW is one Leggo's Tomato Paste No Salt 280g (much easier to use than the 200 grm sachets) and eight kilos of sugar with Pure Stilling yeast. That's it. There is no smell left in the spirit at all except sulphur which is stripped by a double still through copper.

Water wastage is always a problem. Consider cleaning your fermentor using a Milton tablet immediately after pumping up to the still. Then run the cooling water back to the fermentor for the next wash or perhaps just run back to a suitable storage tank. If you use a submersible pump you can connect that to the Water Flow Regulator from 5 Star Store and recycle your cooling water.

[Banga81]

Welcome Mate,
Newbie here myself. Im just about to run my first wash through the T500. I bought from a HBS before reading this forum. I guess after all the reading on this forum, the thing that annoyed me the most about the T500 is its not recommended to do stripping runs on it as it has plastic parts on it that may melt with the temps required to do a stripping run. Instead i will be running it through the still twice. Alot more time consuming.

True it is a bit more time consuming but the double stilling produces a very good quality spirit. I work to this time line:

Day Zero. Start two 23 litre fermentors on TPW using Pure Distilling "Premium Spirit Yeast"
Day Seven. (subject to ambient temperature). Run still at 55C. Still first fermentor produces 3.8 litres rough spirit at 92%AbV
Day Eight. Repeat day seven with second fermentor.
Day Nine. Clean/change copper in T500 column. Return both "rough" spirit batches back to still and fill to "maximum" line on T500. AbV reduces to 40%. Take 100mls "heads. Collect 7.5 litres of good quality neutral.

Thanks mate,
This was more or less my plan. Nice to have some confimation. Both my 25L ferments are ready, so i may even do one tonight and one tomorrow

[woodduck]

G'day mate and welcome :greetings-waveyellow:

Don't rush in mate just take your time and do some reading before buying anything. Not saying the T500 is no good because a lot of people use them and like them but there are also a lot of people that have regretted their purchase.

On water, it's up to you. Some people use town water for fermenting some don't. I have used it and haven't see any problems but depends on how deep you want to get into flavor profiles etc. I wouldn't use it for watering down drinking spirit, use sprung or filtered water for that. On cooling water, well there are many threads on that and it's a big topic so probably best having a look around and see what suits you.

Good luck :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Professor Green]

Welcome Mitcon.

I’m with woodduck. It’s definitely worth taking your time and doing some research in order to get the right still for your needs. Now for some people that may well be a T500 however many folks have started off with one and very quickly outgrown it’s capablities.

As for water, I use tap water for my ferments but I run it through an in-line filter designed for caravans. It just plugs straight onto a hose and doesn’t restrict the flow too much. Bunnings sell them.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

[Mitcon]

Thanks folks, the more info the better.

I did see a different still made out of a keg that had a 2400w heating element in it with a alcoengine and/or reflux condenser (so you can change them over for pot or reflux) ready made. But also read threads about those heads being pretty poor and the design look daft, why would you have the cooling lines at the top sticking straight up like that. Also thought a single 2400w heating element for the size keg may have been a bit lacking, would have thought 50L or larger would be better with a more powerful element or maybe 2 of the 2400w models installed. Looks like it's just a screw in element with a IEC cable on them.

I've not seen many other options of avail to me locally and don't know anyone with their own gear who could build/set me up etc and to be honest my budget is extremely limited. I have very bad hands/wrists (disabled) which limit my abilities to fabricate my own still or I'd be making my own. But as I said I'm not rushing and whatever way I go I'm making sure I know and understand what the limitations are of the units at the level I'm looking at.

I do need to keep it fairly compact anyway as space is not something we have, though I don't like the thought of those small 5L stills as you'd be at it forever to make a batch.

[Mitcon]

Been thinking about cooling system, think maybe a 1000L tank (like the square wine ones) and a pump. What I've been reading lot of folks like using those submersible grey waste type pumps or stronger fish tank/garden water feature type pumps. Which I would think might be a bit weak slow, even more so if it needs to fight gravity at all but they wont fit into the 1000L tank real easy without cutting into it for a large enough opening.

I'm wondering about one of these 2 type pumps below off a square 1000L reservoir, surely that wouldn't heat up much on a small still even over 5-6 hour runs etc?

First small pump https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8LPM-100PSI ... 2219107612 would be excellent if good enough though I wonder maybe about this larger unit here https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Giantz-Peri ... 1151870756.

When I get closer I'll start moving to rest of the forums threads once going further into things, though I am reading through a lot of them, my heads spinning and I need a drink lol.

[scythe]

I would be weary of that first pump, 100psi is a fair bit of pressure considering mains pressure is usually about 14psi...
Make sure you control the inlet to your coolers and don't let that pressure build up inside the condenser or you are likely to get a leak.

Most water saving taps are 9L/min i think but some are 6L/min...
But 8L/min could be a bit low, RC will work on 2L/min so i guess the rest will just need to be directed to the PC and hope that is enough.

The bigger pump has the flow but at what pressure 1" inlet/outlet is fine but you are reducing that down to 1/2" with a garden hose.

[Mitcon]

Being a newbie I'm changing my mind all the time lol, I've dumped the 100IBC idea and going to use a 600L IBC as it should be enough for a small still I would think and the dimensions work neater for where I'm going to plonk the tank down. I think I'll get get a cheap mains powered submersible pump like other have and just just split the relief feed off back into the tank with a in-line tap on the input to the still so as to control flow to condenser.

I have a pump almost the same as the above 12v one that I fitted to my camper trailer and they are pressure sensitive and don't pump out that much flow, but they are a bit noisy and might upset neighbours after hours of operation lol. And I wondered if there was too much pressure/restriction in the condenser may mess with the pump trying to think flow is too restricted and shutting off thinking tap is off. The one on the trailer is ok but once you try to restrict flow too much it thinks tap is closed and stops pumping. Lower flowing pumps like the pond pumps the HBS have seem to often not have enough head flow to push and my tank will be couple meters lower than the still.

I can get the IBC's local too, I'm getting rather excited about entering the hobby and can understand a great deal more already.

Thank you (and everyone) for all the helpful advice, I'm sure I need all the help/advice I can get so maybe some will eventually sink into my think skull :text-thankyoublue:

Cheers Mitcon

[RC Al]

Welcome mate

Love your avatar

There's a vague hint of a rumour about 5 star doing a boka style still soon (hopefully it will convert to a pot still -nudge, nudge, hint, hint Andrew), i would hold out for one of those over a t500, speed and lack there of is a bit of a killjoy with the small units, as you sit there for hours watching drip, drip dribble, it gives you too much time question what your doing...

There is a world of flavourings to be had with neutrals, but my most rewarding product to date has been the uncle jessies, dont be afraid to try the generations thing, its just another step in the process

:handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Mitcon]

Sounds good and lol @ my avatar, most likely will be me after sampling my own product j/k. 8-}

As for still choice, I'm staying neutral until I can save at least maybe $800-$1k and till then reading and learning. I most likely should be looking at a little more saving but on a fixed pension that's not always as easy as it sounds. If I can save more for better I will, if not I'll get what fits budget and if I save money on buying booze will add that to other savings for something better/more suited if/when I can. maybe as I get to know and understand or know others etc I might be able to get some help somehow to make one. Dunno, keeping things simple for now.

If more funds come of avail between now and whenever then that's all good. Anything is better than nothing, I've already started priming the wife lol and making sure I earn all the extra points I can hahahaha. After 30 odd years of marriage I need all the extra points I can get lmao!

edit: oh and I look forward to trying a uncle jessies very much at some point, I think it'd be something I'd really enjoy a lot.

[Andrew]

a vague hint of a rumour about 5 star doing a boka style still soon (hopefully it will convert to a pot still -nudge, nudge, hint, hint Andrew)

It’s more than a vague hint of a rumour.
Looking at 2 inch and 4 inch, stay tuned.
The avatar looks like the interior of a Holden Gemini :laughing-rolling:

[Mitcon]

Well seems I have to update my equipment listing now, I got a surprise from the wife and M in-law so I must have been doing something right lol. They went and bought the T500 kit pack and surprised me with it yesterday, woohooo. I think with the little I'd started saving I'll grab myself the IBC I've been eyeing off and get something nice for the wife and M in-law or take them out for a nice meal. I'll worry about a pump later and pinch the one I have on the camper for now, been years since the camper was used sadly anyway. :crying-blue:

I'm fairly certain I'll enjoy it and make good use of it with all the help and information you folks have given me/shared here on the forums. Still think I'll maybe also get a pot still at a later point, I'll have more time to save and get one of the better stills from 5 star or find a way to build something. Maybe one that can use the T500 boiler or maybe get a keg one and then I can run both at same time. So either way I'm stoked and have already started the turbo wash, though I'm only going to use that as a learning point and trial run of everything. After looking at that black mess I'm not sure I want to even try drinking it lol, ewww

I think today I'll go and get the things to make the TPW and not bother with the other as suggested and get that fermenting also. Already emptied the t500 condenser out and re-packed (well just lightly dropped/eased them down the tube) with the copper saddles and stainless scrubber thing. It did come with the ceramic saddles also, some of things I read suggested putting them in the boiler, is this worthwhile or just don't bother using them?

[Doubleuj]

Don’t bother putting those ceramics in, they’re annoying when you have to empty your boiler and I really don’t see the benifit at our small scale.