Gotta have me one of these!

Perforated & bubble cap plated columns

Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:00 am

Here's the plan.
-Block Head
-4" modular bubble cap plate
-140mm module height
-4 plates
-3/4" (19mm) riser 20mm above plate
-Bath depth 20 mm
-Downcomer diameter 3/4" (19mm)
-Downcomer length 2" (50mm) w/fabricated 1" (25mm) bottom cap
-Undecided on how to attach caps to plate.....solder or mechanical fastener
-4" x 2" stainless concentric reducer to keg.....because it already has sanitary fittings

Ok boys, after much thought and cogitation I almost had my mind made up, I thought I was ready with my plan (I'll get to that). I want to build a 4" x 4 bubble cap plate modular tee style, one run and done bubbler. What finally put me over the edge was when I was at the scrapper for some bits, I spotted some 4" cut-offs. Without hesitation I left with 7 pieces ranging in length from 6" -11" (152mm -280mm) for $2.45/lb US ($5.50/Kg) It's quite thick compared to what I have used on my other two much simpler builds. It's type L and wall thickness measures .114" (2.9mm). HTH am I going to solder this stuff?! My current plan is to make soldered on easy flanges with 1/4" (6.4mm) rather than hammered over style easy flanges. Will mapp gas really give me enough heat?

Ok, so that's one concern. Next (of many I'm sure) is sight glass windows. My plan is to use tri-clamps on 4" easy flanges but as I read many older posts I see issues with broken glass. Should I compromise and reduce my possibility of broken glasses by making my tee branches 3" instead of 4"? My thinking is that it should be easier to make the 3" faces flatter. Also, I find I'm having sourcing issues in the US for just the glass disk. What do the 3" and the 4" sight glass disks measure for diameter and thickness. I may have go to a glazier and commission the size and material I need....suggestions?


Also got some 1.5" (38mm) type K which is .072" (1.8mm) for the plates. With some of the bits I brought home I actually got a start on the project. Here's some pix of how I annealed it . Lot's of BTU's whaddaya think?.... and flatter than a pancake without dropping a hammer.

Lastly for today, when making my posts here, should I continue to provide measurements in both units? I want to make it easy for you to help me.

BTW my feet are really dirty.....(------>Bluc...."dont feel a day over".....)
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Hormesis
 
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Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
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Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby The Stig » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:25 am

Both measurements are good, keep up the good work mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Doubleuj » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:25 am

Good stuff mate, handy to have a furnace like that
As long as your sight glasses are made from borosilicate glass it doesn’t matter if you go 3” or 4”,
Just aesthetics :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:38 pm

7 PC RC and rings for easyflanges.JPG
2 RC shotgun almost ready to solder closeup.JPG
My plans are evolving and slowly but surely parts are being made. Temp has been -11°C outside and ~0°C in my unheated garage so I haven't been cutting and filing much.
So here's what's going on.
I've cut and fitted my plates and tubes for RC. I'll probably whack off 15-20 mm. My I/O water connections will be on the same side and I promise I'll drill them before soldering it together. No baffle BTW…..seems like the general consensus is 'not needed'. Hard solder easy flange. Won't be hammering over end for flange.
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Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:42 pm

4 PC shotgun almost ready to solder.JPG
PC- almost same as above I want to try a hammered easy flange with soldered on ring. (2" pipe is a lot easier to come by than 4")
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Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:51 pm

For sight glasses I have convinced myself to buy the 304 stainless solder on-screw face type (in 3"). About double the $ of glass, clamp and gaskets but I want to cut down my chances of breakage as much as possible. I'll be soldering them to my 3" branches then soldering that assembly to the 4" body body. Haven't decided on soft or hard solder yet. The 4" body wall thickness is .114" (2.9mm) and the 3" branch wall thickness is .045" (1.2mm). I used soft solder for SS ferrules to copper on another build but that was not close to any other joints.........your thoughts?
Are my sight glass necks short enough?
Oh, and the 5° tilt inward on the neck is intentional. Thanks for the harderwoods template link.

I haven't started on it yet but coming up is the branch off of the block head. Would there be any advantages to using 3" rather than 2"? Vapor speed deceleration perhaps?….but then it will be necked down again to a 2" x 4 tube PC anyway…..hmmmmm.
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Hormesis
 
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:17 am

....and my column modules....length will be ~140 mm
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Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby bluc » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:02 pm

I used those sight glasses on mine. I used 2". Kinda wish I used 3" I reakon 2" looks more balanced size wise but 2" is also a little restrictive on viewing capability. But they will do :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:23 am

The weather has not been too favorable for work in my unheated garage but I have gotten something done.

Here's my first attempt at copper smithing involving hammering, shaping and working with 4". I eventually want a longer block head to accommodate a gin basket but for now I just wanted to start working copper to see how it would end up.

Blockhead contoured branch 1.JPG
Blockhead contoured branch flange too small.JPG
Blockhead body drilled for clamp.JPG
Blockhead before solder.JPG
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Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:45 am

But wait, there's more!

I'm making my own caps from 19mm (3/4") type M pipe and and flattened pipe for soldered on cap ends.

Made a simple jig for cutting slots on my home made caps.
I used short pieces of 2 x 4 lumber and put a small spacer between them then used a hole saw to drill the 'trough' to hold the cap. Mounted thin cutoff wheel in drill press and just slide jig past wheel. Take your time for precise cuts.

BTW, I cut slots before soldering on the ends because I didn't want to be slotting annealed pipe.

I really haven't finished any one project but next post will be sight glasses/modules.

Jig for cutting slots.JPG
Cutting slots in bubble caps 2.JPG
Cutting slots in bubble caps.JPG
Bubble cap slots finished.JPG
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Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby dans.brew » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:46 am

Nice work there mate! :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Handy little jig you made to do the slots, its hard work doing them free hand and getting them looking nice.
Its always good watching other peoples builds and seeing all their little ways they make life easier on themself.
Keep up the good work!
She's gonna be a beauty when done.
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Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Lowie » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:41 am

That's looking pretty shmick mate. I Iike your copper work. FYI, the boroscilate glass only cracks when you turn it that last quarter turn... 8-}
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Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby RC Al » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:22 pm

Looking good mate, whats the plan with your plates?

Went and checked up on your m size tubing, 3/4M aint 19mm its 22.2mm our sizes are much smaller/different and mostly thicker walled, some sizes of usa stuff would be great to mix with our sizes to even out flow areas, what were you planning to use for risers? you've got 14 slots? - they dont look much over 1mm wide? you may be limiting your flow a bit at the size you have cut, your at less than 1/2 the area of a commercial plate's slot area with 5 caps. How many caps you planning? 9 would fill your plate to 50% area and get your flow up to a reasonable number

USA https://www.kembla.com/assets/Uploads/P ... E56-16.pdf
Australia https://www.kembla.com/assets/Uploads/P ... AS1432.pdf
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Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:54 am

I'll have 5 risers and 1 downcomer on each plate.

For my risers and downcomers I'll be using 3/4" 'nominal' US.
Dimensions are .875" (22.2mm)od and .792" (20.1mm)id.

Caps are made from 1" nominal US ....the od is 1.125"/28.6mm ...the id is ~1.06"/26.9mm (5 caps and 1 downcomer fill a plate)
The cutoff wheel I used for the slots in caps is .046"/1.2mm thick.
Each cap has 18 slots .200"/5mm deep and average kerf ended up ~.057/1.45mm wide using this cutoff wheel.

I'll mock it up and have dimensions, attachment plans and photos in a post soon.
Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby scythe » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:21 am

I like the toggle bolt idea for soldering the branch on, i'll be using that idea when i solder mine on.


The whole USA Vs AUS pipe naming is skew-if.
As much as it pains me the 'mericans have the right idea, naming a pipe by its actual NB and not its OD.
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Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:39 pm

OK, so I thought I had better address my plates and caps before building 15 more.

In response to RC Al question, here are some more details.
Also, this chart may be helpful to others when planning and building. https://www.petersenproducts.com/Copper ... s/1979.htm

For my plates, I was able to punch holes with a press like the photo so my holes are perfectly round and precisely sized and I get a very tight fit in my plate with my riser and downcomer tubes. This led me to the idea of building plates without solder. My downcomer height is adjustable via the clamp and I can disassemble the risers for mod as necessary. To secure the caps to the plate I came up with the idea of these retainers. They're made from 316 welding rod.

My big questions right now are-
1) do I need more or deeper slots in my caps?
and
2) do I have riser height and cap clearance close to where it needs to be?
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Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 pm

Here's how I made the risers.
I cut the length as consistently as I could then used my drill press to press a socket into the tube to bell the mouth (think pistol reloading). Since my holes are so precise it didn't take much bell to make a 'tapered wedge fit' into the plate. I belled each riser tube deeper or shallower to get a consistent riser height above the plate. (I exaggerated the bell on this scrap piece of tube for the photos but on the my risers the bell is very minimal)
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Last edited by Hormesis on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Fri May 10, 2019 12:11 am

OK guys, progress is being made.
I took RCA's comment about the slots in my caps under advisement and cut them 50% deeper. Now the slots are .300"/~7.5mm deep.
If you build homemade caps my advice is to cut slots before soldering on ends as. I made a mess of the recut on the 5 caps I had done because they were annealed from soldering on the ends.
(Original was..."Each cap has 18 slots .200"/5mm deep and average kerf ended up ~.057/1.45mm wide using this cutoff wheel.")

When I soldered the ends on the caps I made a 'hold down finger' and soldered upside down on the first 15 caps. Then a buddy of mine suggested using my flattened solder and doing them upright and heating from the bottom (I arranged the solder on the lid then set the cup on the lid and put it on a short 'pedestal' made from a short piece of 1/2" pipe and heated it from the bottom)....It worked much better.
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Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Hormesis » Fri May 10, 2019 12:43 am

Let's do sight glasses.
I chose 3" stainless glasses to cut down chances of breakage. I didn't trust my abilities to contour and solder the SS directly to the module so I chose to use a short piece of copper between the sight glass body and the module.
I contoured the copper then cut down the length of the neck on the sight glasses to 10-15mm and soldered the two together.
Preparation is the key here. I'm a reader and I study a lot before doing and with the help of all of you guys it is paying off. Before soldering I clean, clean, clean with Scotchbright© or emery cloth, then wipe with acetone then flux cold with Stayclean©, then fit parts together, then heat and flux again, then solder. I had a very tight fit between the copper and the stainless. For these sight glasses, I concentrated almost all of my heat on the stainless and only at the end put some heat on the copper. I applied solder from each end of the copper and it was amazing watching it get sucked into the joint.
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Hormesis
 
Posts: 39
Images: 0
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains
equipment: 15.5 gal Sanke keg gas fired boiler
2" x 24" pot head
5 gal Sanke keg thumper
3/4" over 1/2 " x 37" Liebig
2" x 36" slant plate Boka w/2 helix x 9" condenser
30 gal coolant reservior w/pond pump
18 gal pharmaceutical drum fermenter
15.5 gal keg mash tun
Stolen idea parrot

Re: Gotta have me one of these!

Postby Lowie » Fri May 10, 2019 6:41 pm

Nice work there mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Location: Crow eater
equipment: 4", 4 plate "Frankenfurter" copper bubbler and blockhead on a 50L 3000W electric boiler, 10000W controller - don't even know why I need that much, all grain HERMS system through 18G HLT keg and 50L mash tun.

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