First bubbler run, few issues & questions, abv dropping

[southern45]

Just finished my first proper run of my 5 Star 4-plate bubbler so bear with me, it didn’t go how I thought it should. I thought the output abv was supposed to remain steady throughout the run?

I did the run as per Mac’s tutorial, two elements on full until boiling then unplugged one, let it reflux for 15 minutes, collected fores at around 1 drip/second. Reduced RC flow to get a steady toothpick stream (I calculated it to be 2.5L/min flow rate).

The abv started at 92% for jar 1 (after fores) then dropped steadily over the next eight or so 300ml jars down to 65% abv. I couldn’t find any column leaks, but at this point I noticed the 2nd plate from the top was dry! I mini-freaked and threw the column back into full reflux for five minutes. I adjusted back to the toothpick stream and the abv was higher but just kept dropping again. Second plate from the top bubbled for a while then dried again, the other plates were bubbling away fine. Was my collection rate a bit too fast maybe? Not knocking back enough vapour?

I was a bit lost so just kept collecting away, finally pulling the pin at 30% abv and about 5L total collected. I felt a bit like I'd just run my pot still.

Any advice and/or ideas about what’s going on? :cry:


Extra info:

60L boiler with 2 x 2200w elements
4-plate 4-inch 5 Star bubbler
45L Corn Flake wash @ 10% abv
Constant cooling water temp
All the gear, no idea...

[bluc]

Leak is my guess..

[Matt_Pl]

Hey mate,

Try slowing down your run mate, I sit at about 2 litres an hour takeoff with my 4'' bubbler.

also while your running use a small mirror, and move it around your joins, if will fog if theres a leak.

Were you getting much liquid returning to the top plate from your reflux condenser?

Hope that helps, cheers.

Matt.

[woodduck]

What is the % of the 5 ltrs you got out? If that's below say 50% I would say it could be that your wash was low % which could cause the problems you had.

Other causes could be not enough reflux/running to fast. Make sure you have a good stream of reflux flowing out of your downcomers. Like matt said, slow down to around 2 lph and see if that helps?

Or like has been said, a leak. Not just external but also internal. If your plates aren't sealing they won't work properly. Maybe check that you have put the seals in correctly.

Good luck :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[toyoda]

What was the % ABV of the wash - might have been a bit low !

[wynnum1]

What was the % ABV of the wash - might have been a bit low !

Have a look at bottom of first post

45L Corn Flake wash @ 10% abv

[toyoda]

What was the % ABV of the wash - might have been a bit low !

Have a look at bottom of first post

45L Corn Flake wash @ 10% abv

:oops: Missed that bit !

[YarraRanges]

Did you have a packed section?
If not you need at least 8 plates to get a steady output and to be able to separate the feints.
4 plates on their own will work pretty much like pot still.

[Sam.]

Did you have a packed section?
If not you need at least 8 plates to get a steady output and to be able to separate the feints.
4 plates on their own will work pretty much like pot still.

I would disagree with this.

A well designed 4 plate bubbler should hold high 80% for the entire run until tails if run properly.

As for the original question I’d say your running too fast.Sow it back to 1.5L per hour and see what it does then keep bumping it up from there :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[southern45]

- No packed section, just four plates under the RC.
- Couldn't find any leaks (using the mirror).

Having had some time to mull it over, I recon I was simply running too fast. Right at the end of the run I closed the RC water supply to just let it rip - and it didn't seem to speed up the output much at all.

I might also strip the column down and rebuild it just to be sure. :think:

Thanks for the input fellas. Live and learn.


Now ... What do you recon I should do with the spirit I've collected from this run? Air and cut as usual? Pour back into boiler and re-run? Burn it all to vent my frustration?

[YarraRanges]

With 5 plates I could not separate out the feints, I tried to go as slow as possible, even after 5 litres I could still detect the acetone in the output.
When I added 3 more plates I found I could get all the feints out in 3 litres.
I've since added another 5 plates and the 3 litres to separate the feints out has been quite consistent.
I didn't go for a packed section because of favoured pathways and the requirement to be changing the packing periodically.
With 13 or 14 plates I get a very clean neutral for making gin, lemoncello or absinthe.

[hillzabilly]

:text-+1:

Did you have a packed section?
If not you need at least 8 plates to get a steady output and to be able to separate the feints.
4 plates on their own will work pretty much like pot still.

I would disagree with this.

A well designed 4 plate bubbler should hold high 80% for the entire run until tails if run properly.

As for the original question I’d say your running too fast.Sow it back to 1.5L per hour and see what it does then keep bumping it up from there :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I would just reload and go slower this time .cheers hillzabilly ;-)

[Sam.]

With 5 plates I could not separate out the feints, I tried to go as slow as possible, even after 5 litres I could still detect the acetone in the output.
When I added 3 more plates I found I could get all the feints out in 3 litres.
I've since added another 5 plates and the 3 litres to separate the feints out has been quite consistent.
I didn't go for a packed section because of favoured pathways and the requirement to be changing the packing periodically.
With 13 or 14 plates I get a very clean neutral for making gin, lemoncello or absinthe.

I don’t think the OP is trying to make nurtrel here and I wasn’t talking about making neutral in my previous post either. A 4 plate bubbler is great for brown spirits but it will separate enough to be clean and retain good flavour

[The Stig]

I might also strip the column down and rebuild it just to be sure. :think:

I wouldn't, change too much at once and you'll never know what fixed the issue.
Just reload and run slower, even slow it down to an unbearable 1L per hour to see if your on the right track.
If that doesnt work then start pulling things apart and resetting them.
But, I think slowing things down will fix the issue.
Just be sure you"ve got the product condenser on the right side of the column :teasing-neener:

[southern45]

I don’t think the OP is trying to make nurtrel here and I wasn’t talking about making neutral in my previous post either.

I would just reload and go slower this time .cheers hillzabilly ;-)

I wouldn't, change too much at once and you'll never know what fixed the issue.
Just reload and run slower, even slow it down to an unbearable 1L per hour to see if your on the right track.

Just be sure you"ve got the product condenser on the right side of the column :teasing-neener:

Thanks. Through 4 plates I'm aiming for a "corn whisky" flavour I can age on oak. I'm going to pour all my collection jars back into the boiler and give it another crack running much slower in the next day or two. Hopefully that'll sort me out.

And I totally built my distilling workbench specifically so I could have the PC on the right... :))

[The Stig]

Don’t forget to water down to around 30% or lower

[southern45]

Don’t forget to water down to around 30% or lower

I haven't emptied the boiler of the used wash yet, so was just gonna add the collected spirit back into the wash and try again. :D

(I can do that, right?)

[rash]

Don’t forget to water down to around 30% or lower

I haven't emptied the boiler of the used wash yet, so was just gonna add the collected spirit back into the wash and try again. :D

(I can do that, right?)

Yep, you can do that. When I run my 4 plater the first time, I had the same experience as you. Though mine is a 3" column. I just put my collection back into the wash still sitting in the boiler the next day and slowed it down to around 1.5ltrs/hr.. problem fixed. I now run it at 1.2l/hr. Was a rum wash.
Ash

[southern45]

I've tipped all my collection back into the boiler - apart from one jar from the middle of the run I've labelled "Corn Flake F##k Up." I've chucked some ex-bourbon barrel chips in and hidden it away, just for kicks.

Slower re-run scheduled for the weekend.

[Westshine]

I'm by no way an expert on bubblers so could have missed something, however to me it sounds like you don't have enough heating going on. If you can load all the plates up in full reflux and when you slow down the RC it all drops, just dial up some more element volts.

In my set the RC can't stop all the vapour from coming over so I use both a combination of water flow and element control to adjust my output.