Big ballz up - where to from here?

[rlmisso]

Here is my rig: 4inch 80L boiler

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Here is my story:
5 weeks ago I put on a macrum wash in a 120l fermenter.
3 weeks ago while I was waiting for my IBC and pump to arrive I took the still outside and hooked it up to the garden hose and ran about 50L through the still as a bit of a test run since I pulled it apart and cleaned it inside and out. I noticed a a leak coming from the base but I kept going as I was just mucking around learning how it works.
I removed the fores and collected about 5l totaling 80 percent ABV

Today I finally finished the pump, IBC and new larger diameter hoses and replaced the seal. I still had 50L left in the fermenter (it was kept sealed and there was water in the airlock) So i added the wash into the boiler and I also thew in the 5l demi. Then I saw there was a bit of water still in the bottom plate and didn''t think much of it. While the boiler was heating up I remembered that the last time I used it I poured vinegar down the column to clean out the previous rum. So then I poured 1.5l of water down the column to try and clean the vinegar out.... and well it just filled up all the plates.... :text-lol:

I wasn't going to stop there so I got it up to temp, kept it in full reflux for a good hour and then I took out my fores. Then I was off, collecting around 300ml in each cut glass and everything was going smoothly, I was collecting it very slowly at about 1.8L per hour. Until cut jar 7 and 8 where the ABV went from 86 to 75 and was slowing down. Once it got to 60 abv which was cut jar 12 I turned off the RC and added the 2nd heating element. It pretty much dropped to 48 ABV straight away then held at 46 ABV for 3 jars.

Jar 17,18 & 19 were also a little cloudy? I started to find a heap of floaties but I have no idea where they came from.

My questions are:
Will the vinegar or water which was in the column ruin the rum?
Can I still use this rum?
Is it okay to have liquid in the plates prior to starting?
Did I rip it into pot still mode too early?
Is it okay to add the previous heads, hearts and tails to my current wash?
Did I leave the rum in the fermener too long given there was 50/50 air and wash?
How do you clean the still after a run when you are planning to run it next week?

I'm prob just going to try and forget today and start again tomorrow. Any advice would be much appreciated!

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[coffe addict]

Sounds to me like you didn't have enough reflux. So either more heat or more water through the rc.
When I shut down my rc at the end of the run my abv crashes to below 10 in the same cut jar.
If it tastes good keep it. The vinegar won't harm you.
Cleaning is often a matter of personal preference. I know many people clean between every run. All I do is plan my runs. Starting with a clean still, vodka/neutral runs, rum runs, whisky runs and then gin runs then clean the still. If there's likely to be more than a few weeks between runs I'll rinse thoroughly with a hose and leave it open to dry.
I usually do a long equalising full reflux at the start of a run which does a good job of cleaning ie ethanol is a solvent.

With what you do think isn't hearts cut add it to the next run there will be plenty of good alcohol in it especially with the bad r n

[bluc]

No dont put the sludge(trub) in the boiler :handgestures-thumbupleft: 0

[rlmisso]

Sounds to me like you didn't have enough reflux. So either more heat or more water through the rc.
When I shut down my rc at the end of the run my abv crashes to below 10 in the same cut jar.
n

Hey Coffee, thanks for the advuce so far. So maybe I crashed it too early? Because there was a lot more alcohol still to come out.? Not sure about the amount of water. Im using a Davey pressure pump and it has a lot of pressure so the valve was almost closed if I opened it anymore nothing would come out the parrot.
I did unplug the 3600w element and left the 2400w going. Maybe try the reverse next time?

Around what ABV would you close up the RC?

[rlmisso]

No dont put the sludge(trub) in the boiler :handgestures-thumbupleft: 0

My instincts were right! :dance:

[coffe addict]

You'll find it easier to control if you swap the ball valve for a needle valve.
If you use tiny adjustments you may find the sweet spot but it'll likely always be a pain.

[Amberale]

Nice rig mate.
I’m settling in my Neutraliser set up and nearly there(fingers crossed).
I’m rigging up my RC with both a gate valve and a needle valve in parallel.
Then I have a choice of outlets for that.
When I’m in full reflux I’ll use the gate valve and drain to a storage tank, then when I get to taking off I’ll switch to the needle valve with much tighter control and drain to a sink near my still where I can have a visual indication of flow and measure the rate of flow in a jug.
(I’m not sure if the needle valve will give me enough flow for full reflux in summer and I’ve got penty of valves).
Once I work it out I’ll knock it up in copper.
Also, if I want to kick it back into reflux, I can just open the gate valve and then shut it down with the needle still set for take off.

My problem down here at this time of year is water temp.
My cooling water is something like 8C and my RC cooling water flow rate is about 200ml/min.
It takes bugger all change in water flow to make a big change to the RC performance.
I think upping the heat input to the boiler would help but the only time I tried that ended in tears.

[Lowie]

I'm going to suggest that by the time you got to jars 7 and 8 you were well and truly into the tails. If it were me, I would keep all the jars up to 6 or 7 (sniff test of 7 will verify if it's the start of tails). Keep the remaining jars and do a feints run with them (make sure your boiler is less than 30% alcohol), you will still get some nice rum from them. Discard the feints run from this run.

[RC Al]

I'm having similar issues currently, on my to try list is pre heating the cooling water, a loop of hose near the boiler may bring it up a bit in temp and make it more stable with low flow rates

[woodduck]

The other way around it is to get a power controller and use that for your fine control instead of a needle valve. Run it on your 3600w and set your rc at about where you want it then dial the power to get the right take off rate.

I think everyone does it differently when it comes to when to strip the tails. I personally wait for a 1% drop in abv and strip everything after that and generally get about 2ltrs of tails that is around 40%. Others like to keep collecting in jars at high % till they are deep in tails then strip only a small amount at the end. It's totally up to you.

That rig should hold at least 92% the whole run, probably higher if your running at 1.8lph.

[Amberale]

Thanks Woodduck.
The only time I tried that I had a huge surge of output from all the holes on the parrot.
It was late and I had been fiddling with water flow and power at the same time(it was only my second run).
I’ve been trying to keep it simple since and just turn off one element.
Next run I’ll try turning one half off and see how that affects my required RC cooling flow rate.

[db1979]

Do you mean half off on coolant rate? You'll probably find it'll need to run at a trickle so you're target range will most likely be almost full off.

[rlmisso]

Nice rig mate.
I’m settling in my Neutraliser set up and nearly there(fingers crossed).
I’m rigging up my RC with both a gate valve and a needle valve in parallel.
Then I have a choice of outlets for that.
When I’m in full reflux I’ll use the gate valve and drain to a storage tank, then when I get to taking off I’ll switch to the needle valve with much tighter control and drain to a sink near my still where I can have a visual indication of flow and measure the rate of flow in a jug.
(I’m not sure if the needle valve will give me enough flow for full reflux in summer and I’ve got penty of valves).
Once I work it out I’ll knock it up in copper.
Also, if I want to kick it back into reflux, I can just open the gate valve and then shut it down with the needle still set for take off.

My problem down here at this time of year is water temp.
My cooling water is something like 8C and my RC cooling water flow rate is about 200ml/min.
It takes bugger all change in water flow to make a big change to the RC performance.
I think upping the heat input to the boiler would help but the only time I tried that ended in tears.

Thanks mate!

Yes a needle value might just make things all the easier. I tried a water host flow meter but unfortunately the flow was soon little that it didn't even register. Although on full reflux it was pushing out 8.5l per minute which means when it's almost closed the PC is doing double that, as I'm using a big constant pressure pump. That goes out to a 1000l IBC Tank.

Never thought about 2 valves, worth looking into, although QLD never gets that cold.

Yeah it may just be trial and error, until I find the sweet balance!

[rlmisso]

I'm going to suggest that by the time you got to jars 7 and 8 you were well and truly into the tails. If it were me, I would keep all the jars up to 6 or 7 (sniff test of 7 will verify if it's the start of tails). Keep the remaining jars and do a feints run with them (make sure your boiler is less than 30% alcohol), you will still get some nice rum from them. Discard the feints run from this run.

Ahh noooooo :crying-blue: that's not want I want to hear! Although you're probably right, I did smell them quite a few times and found a big change at glass 10 onward. It was the same smell which was stronger in the later glasses.

I'm not sure how it could have come so early? I had already thrown in 5l of a previous rum at 80 percent and then a further 60l at 10%. This would have to be an error on my behalf?

It's a same I didn't see your message until now as I threw cups 3 - 9 into a jar with French Oak already... I guess time will tell.

I've out another 90l in a 120l fermenter so maybe a week or two I'll have more to report!

[rlmisso]

The other way around it is to get a power controller and use that for your fine control instead of a needle valve. Run it on your 3600w and set your rc at about where you want it then dial the power to get the right take off rate.

I think everyone does it differently when it comes to when to strip the tails. I personally wait for a 1% drop in abv and strip everything after that and generally get about 2ltrs of tails that is around 40%. Others like to keep collecting in jars at high % till they are deep in tails then strip only a small amount at the end. It's totally up to you.

That rig should hold at least 92% the whole run, probably higher if your running at 1.8lph.

1 percent drop! :o wow that would be an easy way to determine tails.

What would the benefits be to stripping as soon as you get a drop in ABV? Would it just save time and effort? Or do the others collect in small jars for more flavor profile?

I'm keen to get this rig running at maximum capacity and efficiency :music-deathmetal:

[woodduck]

Yeah you pretty much answered your own question there mate. I am generally over it by then and personally find I don't go any deeper into tails when I do cuts anyway so I just strip it quick to finish the run quicker. It does take up more storage but I have that covered.

[db1979]

I'd only recommend stripping after a 1% abv drop once you've got a bit of experience with your still running properly so you can be sure it's the onset of tails you're seeing and not some other issue. I don't bother collecting much tails and pretty much stop collecting all together once my second bottom plate runs dry and sight glass fogs up. From experience on my still I know that the cuts jar I'm on when that happens will have a tiny amount of tails in it and it ends up in the feints storage bottle for running later as a feints run. I don't bother with anything after that. Like woodduck said, I have this approach cause I'm just over it by then and want to get out of the shed and into the house.

[Amberale]

Do you mean half off on coolant rate? You'll probably find it'll need to run at a trickle so you're target range will most likely be almost full off.

No mate, I’ve got two 2400kw heater elements one has a controller.
I have been turning one off once I get into full reflux.

I’ll try turning down to 1200 instead (down to 3600 total) and that should mean I need a slightly higher water flow rate to the RC.
I have been down to 200ml/min and the temp of the water exiting the RC was 11C.
At that flow rate the gate valve is very hard to adjust.

[db1979]

You mean ball valve? That's why ball valves are no good. Gate valves give far more turns to go from open to close. Needle valves even more so.

[Amberale]

Trying to add a pic to this.