Water conservation

Perforated & bubble cap plated columns

Water conservation

Postby Lockyc » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:34 pm

Hey gents,
I am currently running off mains and would like to conserve as much water as possible, water pricing isn't the issue but for me water use is.
I will convert to recirc when I move houses.

The set-up I am aiming to run with rotameters are as follows :
50L boiler adjustable 2400w element
4" 4 plate glass bubbler
200mm long 4" stainless RC with 9 x 1/2 tubes
500mm long 2" stainless PC with 5 x 1/2 tubes

I am chasing some rough figures for RC and PC flow on stainless 4" and 2" condensers respectively for my new build.
Have done a search and nothing too specific comes up, as per "Advice on running 5 plate glass bubbler" bigadz runs under 1LPM on his 200mm 4" RC to achieve distillate but can't find too much other information.

I am wondering about PC flow as well, would rather not run it flat out if possible and run the correct size rotameters.
I have a 0-200cc/ml rotameter for the RC which I think may be a tiny bit too small.
I was thinking a 0-2LPM rotameter for the PC may be adequate.

I know the best option would be to just have a crack, but wondering if we could put some experiences up for myself and the next bloke.
Cheers Locky
Lockyc
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:30 pm
Location: North Queensland
equipment: 2” boka
4” glasser

Re: Water conservation

Postby db1979 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:47 pm

It'll depend on lots of things: ambient temp, water temp and design of condensers for example. This is why you won't find a set flow rate, because it's different for every still and every location.

Try running your RC water off of town water only and direct it onto your lawn/gardens and then recirculate your PC water. RC only requires a trickle once you've started collecting. PC water temp isn't so important unless you want to know abv in real time (for this you will want your product to be as close to 20 degrees C as possible). Your PC water just needs to be cool enough to condense the vapour so you could get by with as little as 200 L, maybe 100 L.

I know you've said you're not recirculating yet, but maybe you could find something you could use for recirculating before you move? Maybe give your bin a clean out and use it for the day?
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equipment: Eve - 4" x 4 plate solid state bubbler (sieve plates), 330 mm packed section on a keg boiler with 2 x 2000 W elements.
Currently having a makeover: 2" x 4 plate solid state bubbler (1" bubble caps, no sight glasses...maybe not for much longer!) on a bain-marie boiler.

Re: Water conservation

Postby Lockyc » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:04 pm

Hey db,

I realise there are a lot of variables :text-+1:
I was more chasing peoples experiences and rough figures with their still's.
The water will be going on the lawn and a few other things. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers.
Lockyc
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:30 pm
Location: North Queensland
equipment: 2” boka
4” glasser

Re: Water conservation

Postby db1979 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:55 pm

I don't think there are many of us that use rotameters, so I doubt many can comment on actual flow rates, unless they've measured flow output into buckets and timed it etc. I'd like to go down the rotameter path one day...maybe.
db1979
 
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:47 pm
Location: South of the big smoke in banana bender land.
equipment: Eve - 4" x 4 plate solid state bubbler (sieve plates), 330 mm packed section on a keg boiler with 2 x 2000 W elements.
Currently having a makeover: 2" x 4 plate solid state bubbler (1" bubble caps, no sight glasses...maybe not for much longer!) on a bain-marie boiler.

Re: Water conservation

Postby bluc » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:00 pm

I dont know about flow rates but 2 strips back to back 2000w is about all you get from 200l barrel water in seq sunshine coast in middle summer in a steel ga4den shed. 2 strips and a spirit run really pushs the friendship with spirit output at 45c x_x Now with a 4" bubbler and a black 1000l ibc sitting out in open in full sun in summer 3 spirit runs back to back, up to 3600w heats it from 25ish to 26-28c and spirit output is only 1 or two degrees above cooling water temp :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I use a 350w submersible sump pump average summer daytime temp 35c
Last edited by bluc on Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
bluc
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equipment: 2" pot with 2" shotty 400mm long 5x 1/2" on a t500 boiler.
50l keg boiler 4" still mount 4" sight glass 1" drain..
4 plate 4" bubbler, 600mm packed section

Re: Water conservation

Postby Lockyc » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:20 pm

I kinda like the fact the flow meters have an inbuilt needle valve and tell you the value.
Also adds to the neatness with less clutter.
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Lockyc
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:30 pm
Location: North Queensland
equipment: 2” boka
4” glasser

Re: Water conservation

Postby nuddy » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:13 pm

Hi LockyC,

I'm running rotameters on my still. Lovely piece of gear. I have two 0.2-2 LPM units that control the dephleg and the PC.

My dephleg is 140mm long, with 19 x 1/2" vapour tubes.
The PC is approx 600mm long with 6 x 5/8" vapour tubes.

Can find pics of it in the build viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9921

My gears all packed away whilst moving house, so can't give you exact figures at the moment.

Continuing with what db said regarding differing variables in regards to design, heat, water temp etc. So take these figures with a grain of salt.

Ballpark figures assuming the mains water going to the condensers is around 20-23C.

A standard spirit run throwing around 2900-3300 watts of power into it and holding around 2.5 - 3 L/hr product output.
Dephleg will sit between 0.4-0.6 LPM
PC sits on 0.4 LPM and stays that way until I hit tails and strip out.

A stripping run on 4400 watts.
Dephleg off
PC on 1.2 LPM knocks down everything.

Hope that helps give a ballpark idea.

P.S. I'm currently in the process of building a less efficient dephleg, current one is way too efficient for what its doing. I'd like to run less power/less potential reflux, but on 2400 watts I just barely crack the rotameter open on its lowest setting (0.2 LPM) and its wayyy to fiddly to get a smooth and repeatable result. Hence having to throw more power at it, so I can operate within a more giving range of the rotameter.
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equipment: 2" bokabob
4" blockhead bubbler build in progress

Re: Water conservation

Postby Lockyc » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:24 pm

Awesome info :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Thanks nuddy
Lockyc
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:30 pm
Location: North Queensland
equipment: 2” boka
4” glasser

Re: Water conservation

Postby wynnum1 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:59 am

If you have mains water can not see trying to use a pump and tank to save water is going to be cost effective if have consistent pressure would be better to save the mains water and reuse that water to wash cloths .car or flush toilet or water the garden or start collecting rain water and using.
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Re: Water conservation

Postby Lockyc » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:34 pm

Was not worried about the cost Wynnum.
Water will be recycled :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Lockyc
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:30 pm
Location: North Queensland
equipment: 2” boka
4” glasser

Re: Water conservation

Postby Russ » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:32 pm

I'm just using town water at the moment and I was interested in this myself. Plan was to put the hoses into a 200l poly drum, drain both hoses into it and use the markings on the side to work out usage, thinking I'd have to empty it all out halfway. Turns out I used 150 litres of water on the entire run.

My setup is a 4" column... 4" RC has 12of 5/8 pipes, 3" PC has 7of 1/2" pipes.

I made the PC large ish to possibly use on a 6" column in the future, as mentioned its 3" and about 650mm long. I wind back the water to a very slow trickle, about the same as the alcohol coming out of it, gets slightly warm at the top but that's about it, bottom is nice and cool and so is the alcohol coming out.

Running 2of 1200 Watt elements with no power controller.
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equipment: A bunch of tortured scrap in the shed that dreams of being a 4-5 plate bubbler one day.

Re: Water conservation

Postby wynnum1 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:24 pm

What was the temperature the day you ran hot weather is going to use a lot more water then in winter.
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Re: Water conservation

Postby db1979 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:30 pm

His location says far north Queensland, winter doesn't exist up there.
db1979
 
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:47 pm
Location: South of the big smoke in banana bender land.
equipment: Eve - 4" x 4 plate solid state bubbler (sieve plates), 330 mm packed section on a keg boiler with 2 x 2000 W elements.
Currently having a makeover: 2" x 4 plate solid state bubbler (1" bubble caps, no sight glasses...maybe not for much longer!) on a bain-marie boiler.

Re: Water conservation

Postby Lockyc » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:21 am

For my PC I run it at about 1000-1500ml/min and gets it close to 20°c, I would rather work out the temperature compensation than use more water.

As I suspected, my RC rotameter was a bit too small
I use around 200mL per minute at 2400w
I would guess around 300ml - 800ml per minute at 4800w, but haven’t measured accurately as the rotameter goes off the chart.

Water temperature was around 23°c
Overall I am extremely happy with the water usage.
Lockyc
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:30 pm
Location: North Queensland
equipment: 2” boka
4” glasser


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