Thoughts on running a short Neutraliser

Perforated & bubble cap plated columns

Thoughts on running a short Neutraliser

Postby Amberale » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:01 pm

It has been cold already down south and running my full Neutraliser (5plates and a packed section) can be tricky.
It works and works well but needs barely a trickle of cooling water through the RC and fine adjustment through a needle valve.
I have had it broken down to four plates and no packed section over the last couple of weeks to run some WB&B and some Rum.
So much easier to run.
I run with 2 2400W elements until full reflux and then switch one off.

With the 4 plate set up it obviously needs more coolant to maintain a given output or reflux and the adjustments on the needle valve are much more forgiving.
The plates were cleaned before this run.
At 1.8ltrs/hr output I am getting 91% for the first litre and then about 86% for the rest of the run. :think:

I may have to experiment again when I put the big rig back together and run one element at 2400 and the other at 400 or such.
The times I have tried this in the past have lead to a surge of output as the I couldn’t balance the coolant/heat ratio.
Anyhoo, I’ll have to work out something because my cooling water temp won’t be hitting double figures for a few months. :D
Amberale
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:47 pm
Location: Bacchus Marsh(ish)
equipment: 5* Neutraliser.

Re: Thoughts on running a short Neutraliser

Postby RC Al » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:32 am

I think your heading up the right track with more power, try 3600w or more with the packed section in,

You could pre heat the water to the RC by routing from the PC, you might need a bypass to balance the flows, but doubtful at those temps

You could also run a loop of feed hose around/near the top of the boiler or even pc as a preheater

Any idea of your normal condenser outlet temps?, cold is not good as such
RC Al
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Re: Thoughts on running a short Neutraliser

Postby Amberale » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:39 am

I’m pretty sure I tried 3600w at one stage and got a surge.
Unfortunately I had been sampling my wares, was fiddling too much and got a surge.
Now that I know it takes 5 minutes to see a change in performance from the RC for every change in cooling water rate I fiddle a lot less.

I am considering a coolant preheat chamber(copper coil in a 20 litre drum with the RC outlet running through the drum) but that then adds a double variable until the set up stabilises.
My coolant flow through the RC while drawing product is between 200 and 400ml per minute so I would either have to preheat the water in the drum, wait for an hour for it to fill or make a smaller unit like a reverse condenser.

The water coming out of the RC at a product output rate of 1.8-2.1 ltr/hr is at 55C.
This is such a low rate that I sacrifice that water and measure the rate and temp throughout a run.
It just drains into a jug over a sink with a thermometer in it.
Cheers
Amberale
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:47 pm
Location: Bacchus Marsh(ish)
equipment: 5* Neutraliser.

Re: Thoughts on running a short Neutraliser

Postby RC Al » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:14 pm

Have a try at getting the outlet water temp up closer to 70 and adjust the power more than the coolant to hit your sweet spot - its more responsive to adjust than the RC
RC Al
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Re: Thoughts on running a short Neutraliser

Postby Amberale » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:24 pm

Just checked my notes and I start getting a drip at 63C and hit my sweet spot at 65c.
I’ve got some FFVW to do next week.
I’ll try a run with 3000w and see how she goes.
Amberale
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:47 pm
Location: Bacchus Marsh(ish)
equipment: 5* Neutraliser.

Re: Thoughts on running a short Neutraliser

Postby Amberale » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:28 pm

Ran it yesterday with the lower element on full and the upper on full until full reflux then backed off the power supply to 60v(normally sits at 240v, 60v was still about 45% on the dial).

This seemed to make it a lot easier to manage.
OAT overnight had been around 0c and the max OAT was around 12C.
In the past I would have been down to around 150ml/min for a product take off rate of 2ltrs/hr.
With the extra 600w of heating I was using 300ml/min for a product rate of 2ltrs/hr.

Much easier to adjust and maintain.

Got a bit of a wobble when the Studmistress used the microwave and kettle in the house but apart from that it seems to be a good result.

The RC cooling water output temp was around 65C for most of the take off.

:handgestures-thumbupleft:
Amberale
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:47 pm
Location: Bacchus Marsh(ish)
equipment: 5* Neutraliser.

Re: Thoughts on running a short Neutraliser

Postby Amberale » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:49 pm

I’ve done this three times now with the same result.
The extra flow of cooling water required gives me much better control as I am not down to a trickle.
An extra 10 litres an hour of cooling water is nothing compared to the ease of control.
I ran a FFVW at 2.5ltr/hr product output yesterday with no problems at all.
Amberale
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:47 pm
Location: Bacchus Marsh(ish)
equipment: 5* Neutraliser.


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