Controlling vapour with valves

Perforated & bubble cap plated columns

Controlling vapour with valves

Postby Chocko6969 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:41 pm

G'day all, just thought I'd ask for some suggestions and/or criticism on my thought process.

What I'm trying to do is create a setup so that I don't have to pull down and reconfigure when swapping from neutral/strip/spirit runs to Gin head. Looking at larger stills, a lot of them employ valves to direct the vapour flow. My question is has anyone used these butterfly valves for this type of application.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-Sanitary-Butterfly-Valve-with-Pull-Handle-Stainless-Steel-Tri-Clamp-Clover-AU-/114058032286?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10
Have a look at my first draft sketch up and tell me what your thoughts are. This design would have 2 valves open and 2 closed when running in either configuration.

I can see one issue (that shouldn't happen but is possible), is that if for some reason the valves at the tee were both closed and the possibility of pressure building, this would possibly be solved with a small low pressure release or something similar.

Chocko

bubbler valvles (1).pdf
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby RC Al » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:39 pm

A 3 way valve is expensive, but would cut down on the piping and avoid the potential pressure build up

The 2 valve systems i have seen have had careful placement and a connecting arm between the two levers so that its not possible to have them both shut
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby bluc » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:52 pm

Tread carefully with design. If done right safe as any other atill done wrong kablam :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Post up before you use it i would also run water first
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby howard » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:50 pm

i know how busy distilling days can get, so personally i would fit a pressure relief valve.
even with a 3-way valve, you could still potentially block the vapour path.
what about a 4-way at the top, instead of the 3-way tee.
i have seen a 2" triclover pressure relief valve, can be ordered with 6 different pressure settings.
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby M8Harry » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:43 pm

I love the idea,

I think this could be an awesome evolution for the home user.

I fully agree with the comments above about a pressure relief valve, you can never be too careful.
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby scythe » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:35 pm

Or better yet just put the pressure relief valve on the boiler.
Less expensive than a 4-way valve.
Just get a threaded boss welded on that suits your desired valve and drill a hole.
Temperature should be low enough that PRVs are easy to find.
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby Lowie » Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:12 pm

I can't see any reason why this configuration should not work, although keep in mind that modular bubblers are designed to be easily configurable. Mine does not take too long to change from straight 4 plates to gin caddy. I also do not see a need to add pressure relief valves as others have suggested as the vapour will find its way out naturally.
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby The Stig » Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:36 pm

Lowie wrote:the vapour will find its way out naturally.

Not if the valves are all closed, it would build pressure and go boom
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby BSC_Kilby » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:04 pm

Go a prv on the boiler and a 2" burst disk in both vapor paths. That way you've got all your bases covered in the (as you put it) unlikely event something goes wrong. The still I work with has a PRV on the pot and a burst disk in the lyne arm just prior to a three-way valve for bypassing the column. The 3 way can't be dead headed, but it could get blocked by botanicals with the way I make gin, so this makes the whole thing extremely safe.
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby Sam. » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:47 am

BSC_Kilby wrote:Go a prv on the boiler and a 2" burst disk in both vapor paths. That way you've got all your bases covered in the (as you put it) unlikely event something goes wrong. The still I work with has a PRV on the pot and a burst disk in the lyne arm just prior to a three-way valve for bypassing the column. The 3 way can't be dead headed, but it could get blocked by botanicals with the way I make gin, so this makes the whole thing extremely safe.


When you say PRV I assume you are meaning Pressure Relief Valve ie an over pressure valve? and not a Pressure Reducing Valve?
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby howard » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:25 am

scythe wrote:Or better yet just put the pressure relief valve on the boiler.
Less expensive than a 4-way valve.
Just get a threaded boss welded on that suits your desired valve and drill a hole.
Temperature should be low enough that PRVs are easy to find.

not a 4-way valve.
instead of the 2" t-piece triclover at the top of the column, you can get a 4-way 2" triclover.
bung the 2" PRV triclover on that.
or just put an extra t-piece triclover in the column, with the 2" PRV triclover.
i've seen 4" triclover reducers with 1/2" BSP outlets and 1/2" BSP adjustable PRV's.
there are many ways to do it, just so long as there's a PRV somewhere before the valves.
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby BSC_Kilby » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:02 pm

Sam. wrote:
BSC_Kilby wrote:Go a prv on the boiler and a 2" burst disk in both vapor paths. That way you've got all your bases covered in the (as you put it) unlikely event something goes wrong. The still I work with has a PRV on the pot and a burst disk in the lyne arm just prior to a three-way valve for bypassing the column. The 3 way can't be dead headed, but it could get blocked by botanicals with the way I make gin, so this makes the whole thing extremely safe.


When you say PRV I assume you are meaning Pressure Relief Valve ie an over pressure valve? and not a Pressure Reducing Valve?


Yeah pressure relief valve.
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby bluc » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:19 pm

Or manometer
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby Chocko6969 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:23 pm

Thanks for all of your input everyone, it's given me a bit to think about.

Cheers!

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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby Sam. » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:33 pm

bluc wrote:Or manometer


Think they just measure pressure mate
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby Sam. » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:33 pm

Chocko6969 wrote:Thanks for all of your input everyone, it's given me a bit to think about.

Cheers!

Chocko


I can't seem to open the original PDF?
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Re: Controlling vapour with valves

Postby bluc » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:52 pm

Sam. wrote:
bluc wrote:Or manometer


Think they just measure pressure mate

Work as a blow off if pressure builds also :handgestures-thumbupleft: but it vents to atmosphere. Better to use a water bath. Depth dictates back pressure if you see bubbles in water bath shut down..
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