4" stainless 4 tray bubble column design

[Swede]

Well, I've got the bug, and one of these days, I think there will be a new big bore bubbler at Swede's place :doh: Where's this gonna end :shock:

Anyway, after pricing out copper, and nearly having a coronary, I figured I'd price it out in stainless, and it's well under 1/2 the price. I figure I can get all the raw materials I need for the column and shotgun for around 200, another 200 or so for all the triclamp goodies, and another 150 or so from ACW (bubble caps and sight glass windows).

The proposed design will have a drop in plate tree, plates, wiers and downcomers will be stainless, and the bubble caps will be ACW copper screw in style. The 4 sight windows are 2" tc ferrules and clamps with ACW 2" pyrex glasses.

The column will be 30" long, 4" tc on both ends with a modular, 4" x 6" dephlegmator attached via tc connetions to the column. I'm planning on putting 4 x 1" tubes in the dephleg.

The shotgun will be 18" long, 2" dia with 6 x 1/2" tubes inside. It will attach to the 2" 180 deg via Tri clamps as well, the inegrated parrot mounts directly to the bottom via a 2" endcap.

The plan is to tig weld all of this together to keep the construction costs down. (I have a tig welder and plan on doing all the welding myself) All the stainless is to be 304, .065 wall tube.

Sadly, construction will have to wait for funds, I figure if I get a little at a time, I should be able to swing it over the next several months.

Today I made my first attempt at CAD drawing and 3D rendering. I came up with a rough design to get a look at what it'll look like when done. Any comments, questions, or suggestions are welcome.

(especially from mac regarding the dephleg and shotgun size)

Enjoy

[Cane Toad]

Don't know much about building a still Swede,I bought mine off Mac :laughing-rolling: but I must say,you done a great fucking job drawing it up :clap: congrats

[MacStill]

gday Swede it certainly looks like you put a lot of thought into this already, the dephlegmaters I make now are all no longer than 4 inch as it makes for quicker response times when you adjust your coolant

your not going to regret. Building this mate, theyre bloody awesome.

Sorry bout spelling and grammar, everything's looks a little fuzzy to me just now :confusion-seeingstars:

[jeracoo]

Thats pretty nice, how much did you cost it up at, using stainless?

[MacStill]

....also you could get away with 4 half inch tubes in your product condenser, Ive tried a heap variations on different arrangements and found my newest one works well.

CHeers.

Great sketches too Btw :text-thankyoublue:

[Swede]

After reviewing the parrot attachment to the condenser, and with a little advice from a friend, I redisigned the vent tube, and decided to use stainless pipe, same sizes as I have in the condesers, 1/2" for the product line, and 1" for the body. I lowered the parrot below the column and moved up the vent line...



Here's a closer look at the parrot, the attachment is a 2" tc endcap drilled and welded on.



Here's a look at the condenser plates, I'm having them CNC plasma cut by a friend. They will be made of 14ga stainless sheet. I'm getting the holes cut .005" oversize for the tubes and .005" undersize to fit the shell to ensure an easy fit. I'll also get 4 blank 4" plates cut for the trays as well.

[Swede]

Thats pretty nice, how much did you cost it up at, using stainless?

For the pipe, $180 canadian. Thats enough to make the column, shotgun, and parrot, including all the internal condenser tubing.

The triclamp stuff will likely be another 200-250 or so.

Then all thats left is bubble caps and glass for the sight glass ports.

Edit, the 180 u bend at the top will be another 50, I forgot about that.

[MacStill]

Parrot setup does look better now, you shouldn't have any problems with surging with the vent like that, but I now prefer the parrot detached as it's a bit more convenient in my situation.

Who cares how much it costs when your building something for yourself to use for ever, and also you'll need a valve or two for your coolant lines, my newest has a 1/2" needle valve for the reflux condenser and its amazing how good you can control temps with it. A gate valve would do nicely, I just like the look of a big chunky needle valve :mrgreen:

Cheers :D

[Swede]

Stainless 4” 4 tray bubble column build parts list.

304 Stainless steel tubing: cost $170 CAD

- 1 x 4”dia .065” wall 36” long (column body 30”, dephlegmator 6”)
- 1x 2” dia .065” wall 36” long (for 18” long shotgun product condenser, 18” spare)
- 1x 1” dia .065” wall 36” long (for 4 x 6” long dephleg cooling tubes, 12” left to make parrot body)
- 4x 0.5” dia .065” wall 36” long (for 5 x 18” long product condenser cooling tubes, 54” spare for making cooling plumbing and parrot tubes)
- 2” stainless 180 bend for top of column

Tri Clamp supplies list: $250 CAD

- 5 x 4” TC ferrules
- 1 x 4” TC end cap
- 3 x 4” TC clamps
- 5 x 4” TC silicone gaskets (2 spare)
- 9 x 2” TC ferrules
- 7 x 2” TC clamps
- 1 x 2” TC end cap
- 9 x 2” TC silicone gaskets (2 spare)

Misc valves and connectors: $TBD (hoping for around 150 or less)

- 2 x ½” ball or gate valves, sweat type (coolant flow control)
- 2 x ¾”npt hex plugs (drilled through to weld on ½”cooling lines in and out)
- 2 x ¾“ male camlock couplers (fit’s my cooling quick coupler lines, screws onto ¾” NPT plug)
- 1/8” NPT ball valve (for parrot drain)
- 20 x copper bubble caps (5 per tray)
- 6 x pyrex sight glass windows (2 spare)

[Swede]

Parrot setup does look better now, you shouldn't have any problems with surging with the vent like that, but I now prefer the parrot detached as it's a bit more convenient in my situation.

Who cares how much it costs when your building something for yourself to use for ever, and also you'll need a valve or two for your coolant lines, my newest has a 1/2" needle valve for the reflux condenser and its amazing how good you can control temps with it. A gate valve would do nicely, I just like the look of a big chunky needle valve :mrgreen:

Cheers :D

I like the look and function of ball valves, but i fear they wont offer enough control, I might go with gate valves for the condenser controls.

But your right Mac, I plan on build doing it up right, however, my wallet can only take so much of a beating :crying-green:

[MacStill]

Having a ball valve is fine but it'll just be a bit of a PITA on your first couple of runs, I doubt it's news to you that most of the control with the valve is just off the closed position... To get full reflux is easy, same goes for stripping/pot still mode.

Adjustments on ball valves when your upto temp are measured in bees dicks, but then once you get that sweet spot it's all too easy.

[Swede]

Here's the tray concept, using acw caps and a welded stainless j tube for each tray. There is no threaded rod holding the trays together, instead there is set of a stainless strips that support each tray above. I will need to devise a way of keeping them in the column when assembled.

Here's a look at this concept, please, give me some feedback here guys. Is it worth it for simplicity, and more importantly function, to go with bigger caps in this design and jtubes? My previous concept used 3/4" caps, festers are 1" caps (slightly larger). Also, is there any benefit or drawbacks to using jtubes rather than downcomers and wiers?



A shot of how they stack...

[MacStill]

I've got a stack of ACW caps for my new build and don't think it could get much simpler, the big single caps worked well sure but doubt they were better.

J tube down comers worked well also, I didn't notice any difference between plate or down comers when it comes to ABV or take off rates.

Cheers

[Swede]

Good to know Macstill, I am still trying to decide which way I'll go, I do know that either j tubes or downcomers are in the works.... Here's a rendering of what the downcomers, sans wiers, would look like for the tree, the plates will stack on eachother, with the upright strapping holding each one in position, and a lock at the bottom to keep everything in place. Click the pic to see the whole thing ;)

acw cap tray tree.jpg

Also,I have a question regarding coolant plumbing, is there a preffered method for routing dephleg water flow? Is it mandatory that the coolant be counter flow in the dephleg, or would it be acceptable run the water in the bottom and out the top of it? Plumbing plumbing from the bottom up would prevent air locking the condenser and prevent it from siphoning itself dry too.

If counterflow is mandatory, would a trap that goes up to the inlet level work to prevent airlock or siphon?

I ask these questions because I would rather design it and then build it, rather than cutting and rewelding an incorrectly assembled system. I hope some who have experience can chime in and help me out here... :)

Thanks

[MacStill]

Also,I have a question regarding coolant plumbing, is there a preffered method for routing dephleg water flow? Is it mandatory that the coolant be counter flow in the dephleg, or would it be acceptable run the water in the bottom and out the top of it? Plumbing plumbing from the bottom up would prevent air locking the condenser and prevent it from siphoning itself dry too.

If counter flow is mandatory, would a trap that goes up to the inlet level work to prevent airlock or siphon?

I've tried coolant flow both ways and found coolant entering the the top to be the best option, things just seemed to be a bit more controllable temp wise and have your flow control valve on the outlet in either situation prevents siphoning.... on start up you just open the valve to full flow to purge the condenser of all air then slowly close it off to roughly where you think it needs to be for the run, the amount of flow during the run is minimal so there's a good amount of pressure there to prevent any air lock or siphoning ;)

For a low pressure setup you can just run the coolant out line up above the inlet line slightly before you put your coolant valve in place, then siphoning wont be an issue.

I like your plate design but everything I found about plate design suggested down comers should be off center and on opposite sides, this is to get the maximum movement and mixing of various distillates as it travels back down the column... it's suggested that the more mixing/traveling the distillate does, the better the end product.

Cheers.

[MacStill]

Here's a good video that explains distillate flow across the trays ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKNDVbQynqo

:D

[Swede]

Mac, I like your idea of plumbing the dephleg return up, as i use a sump pump in a drum for my water. There's not a lot of pressure from this, so the raised plumbing is probably what I'll do.

A "maid o mist" automatic air vent, or a small 1/8npt petcock would work as well or better if the plumbing were arranged like shown below. This might be the simplest, most fool proof way to eliminate air locks in in the cooling system. (I tend to overengineer things, maybe you can tell by now :ugeek: )



With the plumbing like this, the highest point, on the return, will tend to collect air, and once bled of all the air in the dephleg, it will act as a trap to prevent further airlocks from occuring.

[MacStill]

You could still achieve the same basic design by running the warm water from your product condenser straight across to the top of your reflux condenser, then have your reflux condenser coolant exit on the bottom as it should be.

I think your worrying about airlocks and siphoning too much, I've never had a problem with this myself just by placing a flow control valve on the outlet.

My rigs run separate coolant lines to the condensers, this way I avoid the issue your having and the product condenser acts as a relief line to protect the pump from working too hard.

Wish I had your design skills on computer software though ;)

[Swede]

It's starting to become a reality. After farting around for a few hours dialing in the welder on scraps, I built the parrot, I still need to put the TC end cap and vent on it to attach to the condenser.

This is exciting, shiny stainless sure is pretty. Hope I can dial in my technique a little better, It's been a few years since I've tackled anything other than mild steel with the mig welder,:shock: so it'll take a bit get back in the swing of things.

I drilled and tapped the bottom plate off the 1" tube for 1/4 NPT and threaded in a fitting for the valve. The parrot body is 1", the feed lines are 1/2" and the bell is a piece of 2".

[MacStill]

OOOOOOOOOH !!! :clap: :clap:

Nice bit of BLING there :mrgreen:

Cant wait to see the rest of this build.