Aussiedistiller, Home Distilling, Moonshine, Home Brew

The safspirit malt seems to be very much like a german hefeweizen yeast. My all malt washes with it had a very pronounced banana character when fermented at 80degF. Would be curious to try the american whiskey version. I used 50g per 100L wash at 1.060, rehydrated properly.

marcos wrote:The safspirit malt seems to be very much like a german hefeweizen yeast. My all malt washes with it had a very pronounced banana character when fermented at 80degF. Would be curious to try the american whiskey version. I used 50g per 100L wash at 1.060, rehydrated properly.

So....how can that character/flavour be better controlled and/or is it only noticeable when fermenting (ie not potstilling)????
Perhaps temp? (http://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=586&start=320#p19087)

curious if the banana aroma came though in the distilled product or if it was just off the fermenter....

Hefe yeasts will produce more banana at warmer temps and more clove at cooler temps.

edit - dyslexic fingers can't spell off

crozdog wrote:curious if the banana aroma came though in the distilled product or if it was just off the fermenter....

Hefe yeasts will produce more banana at warmer temps and more clove at cooler temps.

edit - dyslexic fingers can't spell off

It did come over in the heads. It made me immediately recognize the amyl acetate in all scotch whiskies. Using this yeast made my white dog have a distinctly scotchish character, which it never has had before. I've used several yeasts before in all malt washes, including WYEAST american, scottish, and irish. This one really sealed the deal on making a new make that was consistent with scotch whisky character. As a caveat, I did ferment hotter, 80+degF, and used my 3 plate bubbler as opposed to double run pot still of the past, so that might contribute as well, but the yeast was certainly in the forefront. It didn't really change the quantity of heads, but made them different. I felt more comfortable including a larger portion of heads into the barrel cut. I wouldn't say that it made a new make that was fantastic (at the cut I used) right off the still, but really seemed to be someting ageworthy. I think I need to make something a bit cleaner if it is destined for immediate consumption. BTW have not used peated malt yet.

@Marcos
thanks for that mate. I appreciate the response and I appreciate making a Scotch, with suitable aging or otherwise.
I'm about to start washes for potstilling using this yeast AND peated grain (most likely) so....wish me luck :laughing-rolling:

@moderator (or whomever was responsible)
why the change of topic title to this? I appreciate it was (maybe) slightly offtopic re original 'yeast buy' but....'wild idea' :?
I mean, what is the wild idea here?

I'd say a "mod" understands the reasons you get banana notes through fermenting & and moved the topic to an appropriate place without going into a long winded reply about what you've done wrong to get the banana in your product :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Or it could just be that it was posted in a bakers yeast topic :laughing-rolling:

Fermenting a lot of different yeasts in their hotter range will produce banana. Interesting to see if the others that are being compared would produce the same of fermented warmer?

The safspirit malt seems to be very much like a german hefeweizen yeast

= Wild idea with no supporting evidence yet stated.
Doesn't seem anything like a hefeweizen yeast to me from the specs.
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp300.html

If the OP want's the topic changed he can edit the topic title by clicking edit on the original post, or he can PM a mod and we'll do it for him.

I split the chat from the yeast buy thread and had to call the new topic something. :smile:

It's entirely plausible for one yeast to be similar to another. Generally distillers yeast are strains selected for speed of fermentation.

Of course, it's very rare that this occurs.

I work with around 20 different strains of yeast at vintage time, and the differences can be very slim.

How else do you believe they are the same?

Look at characteristics such as: Speed of ferment, flocculation ability (ability to settle post ferment), H2S production, ability to withstand high alcohol, lag time at the beginning of ferment, nutrient demand, autolysis ability.

These are all aside to simple aroma profiles of the yeast.

My degree was in winemaking, not brewing...so I may have missed a few here.

I'm keen to trial encapsulated yeast. We use it for sparkling production. The yeast are encapsulated in a membrane that allows fermentation to take place. They can withstand high alcohol and flocculate very rapidly. They do not impart any yeast autolysis characters either. It results in a clean, clear ferment with varietal character retained. I. The instance of a sugar wash? Not too sure.

There's been some talk of using (and indeed creating) encapsulated yeast over on http://www.artisan-distiller.net/ B. Mostly in the vein of continous ferments, which i think they are entirely suited to and being used in small scale distilleries stateside.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts and experience and i'm glad you have joined up with us rebels for a while.

Do you just use, wash and store it? What do you store it in? Does it need to be fed continously ar can it be placed into stasis until you need it?

It's entirely plausible for one yeast to be similar to another. Generally distillers yeast are strains selected for speed of fermentation.

I'm entirely aware of this, in fact Danstil A is now only available in it's original package as a Rhone wine yeast. Distillers yeasts are often selected also for temperature tolerance, alcohol tolerance, osmotic resistance, low ester production etc.

I just didn't get the similarities tween a high temp malt yeast specs and a german beer yeast specs (beside the anecdotal isoamyl acetate).

Encapsulated yeasts are disgorged from the bottle and discarded after. I'm not sure whether the encapsulation is a process or a modification to the yeast itself. Considering its gazetted for use in Australia leads me to believe that it is not a form of genetic modification.

What I'm getting at is, if it's a process that the manufacturer is doing to the yeast, then it is not entirely possible to complete a yeast-build up and expect the offspring to be encapsulated too. If it were GM, this would be possible.

It's not very expensive, only a touch more than standard yeasts.

Just out of curiosity, that Danstil yeast you're talking about, what Rhone yeast is it? Wouldn't mind picking it up myself.

You're absolutely correct too, alcohol tolerance and your other criteria would certainly be factors considered in yeast for distilling processes.

Here's another interesting idea for you all.

Some indie winemakers do yeast build ups with bottles of wine from France. Wines that are fermented with wild (ambient) yeasts and unfiltered will still survive in the bottle to some degree. We can culture these up and inoculate ferments in Australia from these bottles of wine. This effectively transports the yeast from origin (France) and uses it in your ferment. Kind cool huh?

Many appellations for distilled products also have a wine or beer produced in the local area...for example there are still wines made in Cognac. Why not use this process to ferment Chenin Blanc and make a shit-hot brandy? Just a thought.

The same can be achieved with Aquavit, Vodka, Armagnac, Calvados, Grappa. Not sure on whiskey or bourbon etc as they are not fruit based...but an idea nonetheless.

Also, how do you know conclusively that it's isoamyl acetate? What about diacetyl?

BCarter wrote:Also, how do you know conclusively that it's isoamyl acetate? What about diacetyl?

I don't know anything about it as i wasn't the one tasting it and even if i was it would still be a wild guess. Point was that tasting banana did not mean that it was the same yeast.
I am absolutely not going to argue with your knowledge of the subject.


well i probably am :)) , but that's just my perverse nature, in the end i bow to your knowledge. i have some drunken memory of some continous use of the encapsulated yeast at a stateside craft distillery. I've asked for aid in digging it up as i read much too many posts.
I believe it's a chemical process to coat the yeast. fuck, stick around you could even learn something :-D

Can someone who has a packet of the Danstil/Rhone pipe in and add the numbers please?

Beer guys do yeast workups all the time. Whether it's a bottle of Belgian Trippel or just a Coopers Ale, the grow the yeast out cause they're cheap.

Haha sorry, it was the 'royal' you I was using, not you direct 5Star! I agree with everything you said :)

Don't 'bow' to my knowledge, I can be wrong just as everyone else...

I know brewers culture their own yeast, it can actually be a great way to get a select strain. You need to know what you're doing, because yeast is literally everywhere.

Yeast are incredibly resilient and you can culture them even if you can't see a 'deposit' or haze. I digress from the topic though. Sorry!

I never said it was a hefe yeast, only that the ferment smelled like a hefe ferment. So in that sense it behaved like one. I've made a lot of hefs, and plenty of washes. Never got the banana ester from any other yeast when doing washes, even at high temps.

marcos wrote:I never said it was a hefe yeast, only that the ferment smelled like a hefe ferment. So in that sense it behaved like one. I've made a lot of hefs, and plenty of washes. Never got the banana ester from any other yeast when doing washes, even at high temps.

Sorry mate, just going on this statement;

The safspirit malt seems to be very much like a german hefeweizen yeast.

Wouldn't have been a big deal if it wasn't posted in my for sale thread.

Adonis helped with my search term being 'immobilsed'.

http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... mmobilised

http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... mmobilised

http://bioethanol-fuel.blogspot.com.au/ ... fixed.html

video here is pretty interesting showing the continous use. They love their glassware thats for sure.

http://blog.makezine.com/2012/06/06/bro ... equipment/

Ah! This is a very similar concept, but different application...love it!

I know a few researchers who'll be very interested in this.