Several Yeasts

Yeast talk, turbo, bakers and specialised strains

Several Yeasts

Postby flamehawk » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:39 pm

Gents,
I am using a bakers yeast which is quite normal and seems a lot of folk do the same.

I know i can expect around 14% from bakers yeast and the brew is quite pleasant. I am looking for a yeast with similar properties that provides a higher ABV yield.

So, i wonder if i could let the bakers yeas do it thing. Wait for it to get to the 14% then add more sugar and some other yeast to assist with a higher ABV content.

Thoughts?

Ian
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby BackInBlack » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:53 pm

Not sure of yeast strains that would do the job.
But pushing your abv of the wash that high is going to stress the yeast & cause off flavours & probably end up tasting like turbo wash.
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby flamehawk » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:02 pm

Gotch ya re the stress.

So when JD or others say they use 4 strains what do they do.
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby Muppet » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:35 pm

It's my understanding that the dominant yeast would colonize and take over. Can't help more than that mate. Why are you after such a high abv? I'd think you would get a better product running 2 washes with a lower abv. Quality is what I'm interested in.
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby mymumsaidimcool » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:22 pm

Muppet wrote:... I'd think you would get a better product running 2 washes with a lower abv.


or one big one ! :-D 220 ltr is about right :handgestures-thumbupleft:

time to upgrade the fermenters there flamehawk
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby flamehawk » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:51 pm

Already did upgrade. I got a 60L + my original 30L :D

The 60L has been sitting there for 7 days and does not seem to be slowing down. Think i may need another 60L container

The reason i wanted a higher ABV is to get a higher yield for effort. Let me be very clear here i am going for product quality not quantity so it purely a question

I think i might invest in a heater to run a faster brew.
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby Brendan » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:33 pm

My thoughts are that you shouldn't be doing a wash greater than 10%...let alone wanting more than 14%...

Just my preference, but I keep all washes to 6-8% now (as do professional distillers for most washes) and my product has dramatically improved. It's very much a quality vs quantity thing. :twocents-mytwocents:
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby Yummyrum » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:58 pm

:text-+1: What Brendan said....For me It has taken a few years to get my head out of the " Wham bamm thankyou Turbo" Mindset of max ethanol per wash.

The lower there ferment ABV ,the better the product

However EC1118 yeast will go the extra mile if you want .It will still stink though if you push it too hard .


Re the Jack Daniels ,Definitely no expert here but I doubt with their multiple yeasts that they are going much over 8-10% probs just a taste thing .
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby bt1 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:03 am

Howdy,

Issue here is general consensus applies to the "general" yeast used and comments made roughly apply. A EC1118 has the capacity with no stress to yield a genuine 16% to 18% week in week out. It's my "standard" yeast.

It need good conditions, re hydration, growth phase, temp, DAP, Epsom, pH, food source etc but none of these are rocket science.

There are several other specialist non turbo yeasts specifically tailored for distillers that if you don't achieve 15% then your seriously stressing the yeast or doing something wrong. DistilaMax dedicated MW and GW all grain yeasts are around the 15% yield with no issues.

Choose the yeast you need that suits the conditions you can provide. ..there's no point using a temp sensitive or narrow temp range tolerant yeast then not controlling the temp... EDV46 is a good example here whereas it's pre cursor EDV493 has no such restraint.

This notion of not passing a specific % as a "rule" is nonsense. Sure it could be applied to the budget entry level yeast strains, it should never be applied to dedicated yeast strains, but we're not seeking to be just average here are we :handgestures-thumbupleft:

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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby SBB » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:02 am

bt1 wrote:This notion of not passing a specific % as a "rule" is nonsense. Sure it could be applied to the budget entry level yeast strains, it should never be applied to dedicated yeast strains, but we're not seeking to be just average here are we :handgestures-thumbupleft:


Bt , if this is the case I have to wonder why the commercial distillers all seem to keep their washes at a lower abv's than the figures that you are Quoting?
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby Sam. » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:08 pm

SBB wrote:
bt1 wrote:This notion of not passing a specific % as a "rule" is nonsense. Sure it could be applied to the budget entry level yeast strains, it should never be applied to dedicated yeast strains, but we're not seeking to be just average here are we :handgestures-thumbupleft:


Bt , if this is the case I have to wonder why the commercial distillers all seem to keep their washes at a lower abv's than the figures that you are Quoting?


I would say the lower figures are because the big boys doing all grain and not sugar heads so getting above that 8 % requires too much extra malted grain and efficiency is lost. Don't think by would be limited from yeast selection :-B
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Re: Several Yeasts

Postby bt1 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:27 pm

Bt , if this is the case I have to wonder why the commercial distillers all seem to keep their washes at a lower abv's than the figures that you are Quoting?


Let's have a look at this across the board rather than a general one fits all.

Rum and especially sugar based Gin commercials who use primarily sugar(s), beets molasses or cane as wash bases are not restrained by grain mash efficiency. Hence you see some fairly high wash abv's produced. A vodka manufacturer especially if triple distilling would be more concerned with yield and hence would be a user of specialist yeast. less input greater yield = commercial viability.

For grain mash based agree there's little point in using more expensive high yielding yeasts when your SG due to grain mash efficiency is only going to give you lower yields. Grain mashes don't push into the SG 1090 plus range so why bother...commercial pressure dictates mash times therefore potential yield and the resulting yeast requirement.

It's further complicated by issues like American bourbon laws that restrict the final barrel max strength. It's far simpler to produce to the level you need that stuff about.

Commercial yeast manufacturers produce tons of these specialist yeasts...they sure ain't all going into the hobby market.

bt1


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