Does adding more speed up fermintation

Yeast talk, turbo, bakers and specialised strains

Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby flamehawk » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:48 pm

gents,
Does adding more yeast speed up fermintation. So it i added a full cup to a 60ltr or for that matter the whole jar of yeast would is see faster activity?

Ian
flamehawk
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm
equipment: 4 plate custom built bubbler
50k Keg
2400w element

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby Zak Griffin » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:51 pm

Not noticeably, no... The yeast will multiply itself until there is enough to deal with all of the sugar, but it's only the first stage of fermentation. You'll just be wasting yeast :handgestures-thumbdown:
Zak Griffin
Mentor
 
Posts: 6831
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Radelaide
equipment: "The Heart of Gold" - 4" Bubbler - finally bubbling!
"Zaphod" - 3" Pot - retired
"Agrajag" - 6" Bubbler - midlife crisis build?

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby Brendan » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:30 pm

As Zak eluded to, more yeast initially will only cut down the reproduction phase where the yeast multiply and consume oxygen. Once the oxygen is consumed, they start eating the sugars...you will not speed up this process, no, and too much yeast can lead to unpleasant flavours...

So to put plainly, by altering the amount of yeast pitched, you're only affecting the time between pitching and fermentation (which is usually within 12 hours anyway for standard quoted amounts).
Brendan
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 2146
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:06 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW
equipment: 4.99L Essential oil extractor

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby OzKev » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:37 pm

Yeast during fermentation goes through many phases. The Log phase would be substantially reduced and even the main ferment stationary phase would be reduced. But by reducing the Log phase you would loose all the yummy yeast flavor byproducts.
OzKev
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:54 pm
Location: SE Qld
equipment: 50 L boiler with 2 x 2200w elements, and voltage controller
- Pot still with a 2" column, 1/2" liebig, with a few ogee attachments.
- 3" Modular Boka
Still Spirit Super Reflux
Still Spirit T500

All Grain brewery (BIAB, 1V and a 3v)
Temp controlled fermenting

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby Yummyrum » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:28 pm

Adding more heat will help speed things up.
Lowans will work up to around 40 deg C.....works well for rum....for TPW I'd keep it not much higher than 30 deg.

For a quick start , aerate your wash very well.
Yummyrum
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Near Coffs
equipment: Did use Still Spirits Reflux
Now use 50l Keg with Pot head for Rum and Neutral stripping runs on gas .
LM/VM head with 1m packed 2" on Still Spirits boiler for Neutrals.

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby flamehawk » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:33 pm

I have always been afraid to airate give the chance of infection. But given we are not drinking our wort as such it's ok I guess.

I will go and fit a new gromit and plug to the heater.
flamehawk
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm
equipment: 4 plate custom built bubbler
50k Keg
2400w element

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby kelbygreen » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:50 pm

I airate by just tipping water in from a height and then do a vigorous stir with the big SS spoon I have. Being sanitary like beer brewing doesnt seem to be used as much in distilling I used to when I started but just hose out fermenter and refill now. Say you do that on a beer brewing forum :laughing-rolling: .

You could rehydrate the yeast in 30deg water before you pitch it, Try airate the wash as much as you can. Make sure the wash is at 30deg when you pitch, try to keep the wash at 30deg while fermenting.

If you plan your washes you should be able to get to a point where your producing more then you can drink so time shouldnt be the biggest factor. There is other ways to start the yeast better before pitching but mainly used to grow the yeast before pitching, I dont think its worth it unless you have a strain you want to always use, like they do in beer they split say enough for 1 brew into 5 or more small vials then make a starter to grow that 1/5th into enough yeast for the wort. Not something to concirned with distilling as lowens yeast is cheap not $12 for a fresh yeast for just 30lts in beer
kelbygreen
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Newcastle
equipment: 3" pot

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby bt1 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:55 pm

There's minor speed advantages to over pitching,

But by over pitching I'm talking gms not "jars". This is yeast specific and does vary but for a EC1118 rehydrated and managed I use 2 desert spoons. It's ample.
Yeast will multiply to the conditions available so during growth phase you should get close and much closer to ideal with the wash setup right.


There more to be had in terms of wash management.
Most yeast don't require lower pH's to start they produce a lower pH in the wash by fermentation producing several acids. The point of being around the 5 - 5.5pH is to avoid wash infection.

Hydrate you yeast to within 5c of wash temp . This avoids thermal shock on pitching. Some yeast like EC1118 need a 30 - 35c start, much higher than you would run your wash at.
Allow pitching vessel to cool over a hour or so pitching closer to the desired wash run temp. Running above 22-24c for most yeasts...clearly not Lager yeasts who need much lower temps.
Avoid warm wash starts helps reduce the diacetyl effects. Lowans on the other hand a hot bread yeast prefers a warmer wash fro go to finish.
Feed the yeast DAP for a nutrient source.
Aerate the wash well before pitching assists growth phase...drill & paint stirrer is a good fix.
check your start temp is right.
Heat/cool / insulate to achieve desired temp
Add Epsom salts for yeast cell wall repair - needed during growth phase.
If using grain sugarheads and using high protein grains a mid ferment gentle stir assists to break up the plug at the base of the fermenter, release trapped sugars
For most yeasts the last day or two cooling down gently assists with clearing.

Not all yeasts are the same so there's no one fits all rule set here. Last winter was an eye opener for me... first pitch lager yeast running mid winter (12c) room temps took 6 weeks for 60lt...by gen 4 it was just over a week.... trained!

Get to know your yeast and you'll end up with better quicker ferments.
bt1
bt1
 
Posts: 2448
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Adelaide
equipment: 2 x Glass Bubblers, 5 plate 89mm & 6 plate 110mm
4" 6 plate copper bubbler, 500mm copper packed section
Several pots, custom boiler
14 keg rotating brew setup, fermentation & dispenser fridges.

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby wynnum1 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:28 am

Adding more yeast then aeration is not needed but if using beer or wine yeast is more expensive then cheap bread yeast .If making a sugar wash for a neutral then heating may not be a benefit .
wynnum1
 
Posts: 1444
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:18 pm

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby bt1 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:00 am

Gee wyn,

Most of things you mentioned are considered close to best practice...depending on yeast used clearly.

Aerating a wash for instance would be the norm for most. It aids yeast growth.

Not convinced here :o

bt1
bt1
 
Posts: 2448
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Adelaide
equipment: 2 x Glass Bubblers, 5 plate 89mm & 6 plate 110mm
4" 6 plate copper bubbler, 500mm copper packed section
Several pots, custom boiler
14 keg rotating brew setup, fermentation & dispenser fridges.

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby flamehawk » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:56 pm

Thanks Guys.

I am starting to build up a supply and i will be able to let the washes fully ferment from this run onwards. I now have about 4 litres of 170 proof so that might last me a while. I will continue to do weekly washes until i have enough for a 6 month supply set aside. I would prefer to be drinking aged beverages although they are nice after one week :D

The 60ltr fermenter will become the main and i can do away with the 30ltr drum for now. I guess it would be good for testing new recipes without committing to a full 60 ltr

I noticed a huge difference in yield after switching to lowans from what i was using before.

Again, thanks for the advice.
flamehawk
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm
equipment: 4 plate custom built bubbler
50k Keg
2400w element

Re: Does adding more speed up fermintation

Postby OzKev » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:02 pm

Here's a yeast manufacturers response.
From http://www.lalvinyeast.com/faq.asp

What will happen to my wine if I add too much or too little yeast?

The pitching rate influences the lag phase and general fermentation speed as well as the flavour of the finished wine. Too low pitching rates will result in longer lag phase and higher risk of contamination as well as longer overall fermentation time (and sometimes stuck fermentations). Too high pitching rates speed up the fermentation but can lead to early autolysis.
OzKev
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:54 pm
Location: SE Qld
equipment: 50 L boiler with 2 x 2200w elements, and voltage controller
- Pot still with a 2" column, 1/2" liebig, with a few ogee attachments.
- 3" Modular Boka
Still Spirit Super Reflux
Still Spirit T500

All Grain brewery (BIAB, 1V and a 3v)
Temp controlled fermenting


Return to Yeast



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

x