Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

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Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby cap73n » Sun May 08, 2016 7:41 pm

Hi all,
I want to get more fruity notes in my single malt. i especially like it when I come across a whiskey that has citrus or melon on the nose. Ive made a few process changes to encourage ester formation, but I think the main factor is yeast selection.

Has anyone got any ideas on a yeast i could use? I was thinking about maybe a belgian ale yeast or a saison. Has anyone had any experience with either?
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby Peregian » Sun May 08, 2016 8:25 pm

Have you watched the video "single malt USA" near the bottom of this page viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9452

I have just done 4 x 23 liter washes trying the Saison yeast, it will not be a true test of the yeast as I all so added bakers yeast for a fast ferment.

All 4 finished together in 4 days but I waited 1 extra day to make sure. They have been racked off and are clearing at present.

Now I have dipped a finger in for a taste and it tastes different from others I have done with just bakers yeast, the taste seems a little more fruity but I guess I will not know for sure till after the spirit run.

Just trying something different and hoping for a good result.
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby cap73n » Mon May 09, 2016 8:00 pm

Peregian wrote:Have you watched the video "single malt USA" near the bottom of this page viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9452

I have just done 4 x 23 liter washes trying the Saison yeast, it will not be a true test of the yeast as I all so added bakers yeast for a fast ferment.

All 4 finished together in 4 days but I waited 1 extra day to make sure. They have been racked off and are clearing at present.

Now I have dipped a finger in for a taste and it tastes different from others I have done with just bakers yeast, the taste seems a little more fruity but I guess I will not know for sure till after the spirit run.

Just trying something different and hoping for a good result.


Wow that video was cool, those guys have really similar ideas to what i was thinking haha.

Im definitely keen to hear about how your spirit turns out. let me know!
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby EziTasting » Mon May 09, 2016 9:08 pm

Wow, just watched a Whisky tasting chanell that talks about using 2 yeasts in order to create more fragrance and taste:-
...

Very interesting subject!
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby Sam. » Mon May 09, 2016 9:28 pm

My internet is literally that shit I couldn't watch that whole video but I can confirm that at least a couple of scottish distilleries use 2 types of yeast, generally a distillers yeast mixed with a brewers yeast.

I also have a bottle of that Kingsbarn "spirit drink", it's white dog scotch and not all that flash :-|
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby wedwards » Tue May 10, 2016 12:57 pm

Depending on how you are ageing and preparing your barrel etc, you can get those notes from the ageing process as well. Its pretty hard to achieve the same outcome using dominos from my experience. To get the fruity notes, if I understand what you/I perceive as those notes, you would want to use multiple yeasts as mentioned (saison, ECY29, WLP017, WLP022, WLP023, WLP500, WLP540, WLP566/568, etc etc). I would be inclined to include more than just 2 strains, and be very aware that some strains will not produce the fruity notes you are seeking unless they are fermented at higher temps (usually you only want to do that in really robust dark beers etc). Im not convinced saison on its own would give you the result you are after (maybe if fermented at high enough temp it might come close), but its a "give it a go, and see how it turns out" kind of thing.

You could also potentially add a few drops of some food grade citrus oil to either your ageing barrel, or even into your fermenter to further accentuate citrus notes if thats what you are seeking. An alternative might be to put some orange and lemon peel in with your ferment - but not too much, a little goes a long way, maybe just one small piece of each.

One of the simplest and easiest things that will give you some fruity notes and that usually works very very well, is to age your alcohol in a used port barrel. This will definately give you a great result with almost zero effort compared to other options. Also good because you get to drink 5 litres of port first :laughing-rolling: Make sure there is no liquid port at all left in the barrel before you put your spirit in it, leave the bung out and let it dry out for a week or so just to be sure; you just want it to leech out some of the flavours that the wood soaked up from the port, not have it take on the actual flavour of the port. When you are done, fill it with port again, and keep repeating. A mate of mine has a little 4.5L barrel and we cycle it a few times a year and make some of the best whiskey he thinks hes ever tasted.
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby cap73n » Thu May 12, 2016 7:24 pm

Sam. wrote:My internet is literally that shit I couldn't watch that whole video but I can confirm that at least a couple of scottish distilleries use 2 types of yeast, generally a distillers yeast mixed with a brewers yeast.

I also have a bottle of that Kingsbarn "spirit drink", it's white dog scotch and not all that flash :-|


haha dw you probably didn't miss to much, he drags on a bit. but he does mention that the fruity notes are already there in the white dog. did you notice them when you tried it?
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby cap73n » Thu May 12, 2016 7:30 pm

wedwards wrote:Depending on how you are ageing and preparing your barrel etc, you can get those notes from the ageing process as well. Its pretty hard to achieve the same outcome using dominos from my experience. To get the fruity notes, if I understand what you/I perceive as those notes, you would want to use multiple yeasts as mentioned (saison, ECY29, WLP017, WLP022, WLP023, WLP500, WLP540, WLP566/568, etc etc). I would be inclined to include more than just 2 strains, and be very aware that some strains will not produce the fruity notes you are seeking unless they are fermented at higher temps (usually you only want to do that in really robust dark beers etc). Im not convinced saison on its own would give you the result you are after (maybe if fermented at high enough temp it might come close), but its a "give it a go, and see how it turns out" kind of thing.


Yeh those are the types I've been looking at, but its kind of like, where do i start haha. I feel like i need to do some individual testing or do i just go all out and hope I'm lucky with my selection

wedwards wrote:You could also potentially add a few drops of some food grade citrus oil to either your ageing barrel, or even into your fermenter to further accentuate citrus notes if thats what you are seeking. An alternative might be to put some orange and lemon peel in with your ferment - but not too much, a little goes a long way, maybe just one small piece of each.


That would definitely produce some interesting flavours, but something in me just feels like it wouldn't be as rewarding or exciting as flavours created from nothing if you get my drift

wedwards wrote:One of the simplest and easiest things that will give you some fruity notes and that usually works very very well, is to age your alcohol in a used port barrel. This will definately give you a great result with almost zero effort compared to other options. Also good because you get to drink 5 litres of port first :laughing-rolling: Make sure there is no liquid port at all left in the barrel before you put your spirit in it, leave the bung out and let it dry out for a week or so just to be sure; you just want it to leech out some of the flavours that the wood soaked up from the port, not have it take on the actual flavour of the port. When you are done, fill it with port again, and keep repeating. A mate of mine has a little 4.5L barrel and we cycle it a few times a year and make some of the best whiskey he thinks hes ever tasted.


HAHAH That sounds like an awesome idea!
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby cap73n » Thu May 12, 2016 7:36 pm

Has anyone had any luck using wine or cider yeast that creates high ester/fruity aromas in AG wort?

I know its unlikely they would be able to ferment maltotriose, but my theory is if you pair it with say a distillers yeast. you would get fruity esters from the "special" yeast eating the glucose etc and then good attenuation from the distillers yeast finishing the job. As long as it isn't a killer phenotype.
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby Sam. » Thu May 12, 2016 7:50 pm

cap73n wrote:
Sam. wrote:My internet is literally that shit I couldn't watch that whole video but I can confirm that at least a couple of scottish distilleries use 2 types of yeast, generally a distillers yeast mixed with a brewers yeast.

I also have a bottle of that Kingsbarn "spirit drink", it's white dog scotch and not all that flash :-|


haha dw you probably didn't miss to much, he drags on a bit. but he does mention that the fruity notes are already there in the white dog. did you notice them when you tried it?


It does have some fruit aroma to it but very slight, there would be more fruit notes gained by oaking I would imagine ;-)
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby Bumper » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:06 am

This may help. A good overview of yeast management to generate flavours, and then a breakdown of the types of yeast and their fruit profiles.

http://byo.com/malt/item/1664-yeast-strains-for-belgian-strong-ales
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby markus » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:32 pm

Thanks bumper. That was a great read :handgestures-thumbupleft:
I've been looking around at different yeasts for all grain whisky. But yet to try any.
The wyeast 1214 could be on the cards, after a bit more research :-B

Cheers Markus
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby WicketNut » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:35 pm

This post has inspired me to try.

I have been fascinated with Trappist style beers recently and used Wyeast 3787 (https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrai ... .cfm?ID=65) to make a Dubbel - still waiting for bottle conditioning to finish.

Anyway, I harvested and washed four jars of the yeast early in the ferment for future use. I am anticipating banana and raisin flavours. I am going to have a crack at an all grain scotch with this yeast on 100% Golden Promise malt.

Will report back shortly.
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby EziTasting » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:14 am

WicketNut wrote:...Anyway, I harvested and washed four jars of the yeast early in the ferment for future use. I am anticipating banana and raisin flavours. I am going to have a crack at an all grain scotch with this yeast on 100% Golden Promise malt.

Will report back shortly.


G'day WN, any updates? This is one of my long term goals (fruity style AG Whisky) and am keen to get your feedback...
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby WicketNut » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:21 am

I mashed last weekend, but won't get the chance to run it today. :mad:

I used the washed yeast, but it didn't crank up at all. The next day I dry pitched safspirit malt yeast on top, and when it cranked up the smell was AWESOME :D

Will have to leave sit today - might strip it after work one night this week.
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby TasSpirits » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:20 pm

Watching this thread with interest, Im going to use Fermentis Malt whisky yeast and T-58 to try get a pepper and spice flavour in a single malt :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby EziTasting » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:49 pm

TasSpirits wrote:Watching this thread with interest, Im going to use Fermentis Malt whisky yeast and T-58 to try get a pepper and spice flavour in a single malt :handgestures-thumbupleft:


Sorry to ask such a daft question, but is there like a list of yeast and their corresponding flavour/fragrance? I mean, how (other than experience) would you find out what yeast combination gives you what flavour? This is fascinating to say the least!
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby TasSpirits » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:53 pm

EziTasting wrote:
TasSpirits wrote:Watching this thread with interest, Im going to use Fermentis Malt whisky yeast and T-58 to try get a pepper and spice flavour in a single malt :handgestures-thumbupleft:


Sorry to ask such a daft question, but is there like a list of yeast and their corresponding flavour/fragrance? I mean, how (other than experience) would you find out what yeast combination gives you what flavour? This is fascinating to say the least!


If you look at a site like ibrew, in the beer ingredients section, each yeast will have a short description, whether this will carry over after distillation is trial and error :handgestures-thumbupleft: Perhaps someone will draw up a chart one day, maybe the beer guys already have :think:
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby WicketNut » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:21 pm

Running the wash through the still now. The mash clearly had a different smell to it - I could say it was fruity, but that is more hope than certainty. I know the yeast is supposed to produce banana tones, so I wonder if I smell that because I expect it ... :think:

Anyway, the distillate coming off smells exactly like all my other scotches. As I expected, the difference, if any, will be in the subtle notes and will depend on the oaking etc. I am very keen to see how it goes, but won't know more really until at least six months from now. Probably more.

That's the problem with this type of experiment, it takes ages and my interest in different ideas waxes and wanes.

BTW, the Dubbel turned out to be the best beer I have made. Need to make more. :mrgreen:
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Re: Yeast for AG single malt with fruity notes

Postby EziTasting » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:58 pm

Waiting is the worst!

Waiting for ferments! :sad: waiting for the still :sad: waiting for the mature product :sad: waddayado?!?!
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