How to.... easy, easy flange.

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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby scythe » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:59 pm

I would do as suggested and flatten them, gradually, and once they start to touch solder them, then carry on flattening them.

But if they don't end up touching then you can always fill the gap with soft solder because by that point they should be prety close...

How did you manage to make it smaller?
I find i make them bigger rather than smaller, and then need to file the ends to get them closer to the pipe.
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby Psykamaholik » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:11 pm

I`ll give that a try, cant really stuff it any worse than it is :teasing-tease:

I just followed the instructions but used a permanent marker that may have been a bit too wide of a tip, cut ith the dremel
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby db1979 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:26 pm

If you flatten the rings and they end up bigger (which they will) they can be bent a little and if you hammer them back again you can get it to reduce its radius. If I can recall correctly, I think it's done by holding the flattened ring at a slight angle. I know this is a terrible explanation, but I'm not sure how to explain it well. Perhaps I should give it another go and try and take some photos.
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby woodduck » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:44 pm

I would've thought the inside of the ring would get smaller not bigger by flattening? I find the ring gets tighter on the pipe the more I flatten it, to the point where some times they brake.
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby db1979 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:33 pm

The straighter a pipe is, the larger its radius of curvature is and the least stress there is on its walls. If the radius gets smaller the outer edge will get more stretched.

It's the outer edge resisting getting stretched that causes the ring to increase its radius of curvature instead as it wants to resist the strain of being flattened. If the ring is soldered (hard not soft) the copper has less choice in the matter and behaves differently.

I should add that I don't have hard solder so all my flanges have been done with soft solder and I've flattened the rings before soldering to the pipe. Also, I add them to the opposite side of the flare instead of the usual.
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby scythe » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:34 am

WD:
The rings get smaller and grab the pipe, but only if they are hard soldered together, for every bend you make the overall length increases.
There is a formula for it.
Let me see if i can find it.
(0.4292×R, where R is the bend radius in inches)
Rule of thumb is you gain 1 pipe diameter for each 90° bend.
And as we are increasing the pipe diameter by flattening it but keeping the same radius it will grow.

Swageloc have a good PDF.


Psykamaholic:
Strange, it shouldnt matter how thick the mark is, only how thick your cutting method is.
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby woodduck » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:54 am

Yep I think I'm following you guys now. I'll give it a try on a couple I've got sitting atound :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby Zak Griffin » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:40 am

Mine always seem to grab the pipe too? ID gets smaller...
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby woodduck » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:44 am

Yep when it's soldered together is what they're saying. If it's not soldered together the theory is that the tube will stretch then it can be pulled together to make a larger ring. I think that's what they're saying :-B
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby db1979 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:34 pm

Ok so I had this ring of flattened 1/4" which I was using as a spacer to help my clamps at the top of my bubbler to seal properly.

15138621120300.jpg


Turns out my flanges and seals weren't thick enough to seal up properly. So instead of stuffing around with this makeshift fix I decided to add the ring to the flange.

Problem is I don't have hard solder and the ring is now oversized.

After flattening it looks like this.
15138621792923.jpg


So I bend it again
15138622112605.jpg


And hammer it on my anvil (sorry, it's just a stoning hammer, it's all I've got) and use the leverage to bend the ring in on itself. The photo's not the best but it's hard to take a good photo when you're holding the camera, copper and hammer at the same time.
15138622348626.jpg


Anyway after a bit of hammering and bending and bending and hammering she fits (well mostly) the flange.
15138622621807.jpg


It's important that the angle of hammering uses the leverage of the anvil to push the ring into a smaller diameter. It's harder at the ends of the ring as you get less leverage.

To be continued...
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby db1979 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:38 pm

After trimming the overhang:
15138622818868.jpg


Now just needs to be soldered on.

15138622967969.jpg


And that's how I've done most of my flanges. The rest are either just flared pipe or in the case of a condenser, the end plate is soldered to the outside of the flared pipe. LPG and soft solder all the way.
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby Sam. » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:14 am

Looks good :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Always great to see the Australian safety boots in action too :D :laughing-rolling:
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