Stainless Steel Keg Boiler Element Install

[ticknaylor]

Hey fellas just in the process of upgrading my boiler from a 20L urn to a 50L keg. Been searching all night trying to find some info on the best way i should go about installing elements into the keg and making it seal nice. The tri-clamp and easy flange was easy to find and I'm gunna start with that soon, but I'm a little lost with the element size/seal problem. HD has so much freaking info i find i spend the night sorting through irrelevant shit :angry-banghead: I'm thinking 5200W element but i also heard using two elements is a good way to go so you can heat up your mash with two elements then switch one off once your collecting. If anyone could point me in the right direction on threads/ elements that do the job of keeping a seal, heating it quickly and easy to install etc I appreciated it a shitload fellas

[stilly_bugger]

Try this thread. But you're in WA. Maybe they post?

I use 2 x 2,200W Keg King elements. They work. They could be better, but they work. Others don't like 'em.

5,200W is a lot of power in a single element. Can you even run that wattage on a standard 10A house circuit? I have no idea. 5,200W, if possible, would be good for stripping runs but I wouldn't even dream of trying to run a (hobby sized) reflux column on that much power.

Also, a hot tip. If you want to find what you're after here or on HD, do a Google search such as 'heating element site:http://aussiedistiller.com.au/' . It will give you results only from the listed site.

:handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Goldie]

If your after non welded elements in WA, just head to Bibra Lake and grab 2 of these:
http://www.homebru.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28_32_114&products_id=957

Or else contact 5Star for some awesome element kits which actually provide some protection:
http://www.www.5stardistilling.com.au.com/element-guar ... pters.html

[R-sole]

I would not use that element for a million bucks (all the brew shop weldless ones in 2200 watt are the keg king ones).

To say 'some don't like em' is very far from the truth. Fact is that 'some' recognise and acknowledge that the product is faulty and incredibly dangerous to the point that someone is eventually going to get killed by one of these things.
Much closer to reality is to say 'some accept the risk to life and inconvenience of the product exploding during use in order to save a couple of dollars'.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... opic=63974

In the interests of full disclosure I am a competitior and do stock better elements although more expensive. You can also go to your closest agent of Stokes australia (google it) and get elements the same as i supply for a couple bucks more but save the freight, if you can talk them into trade prices.
My concern here is for safety and the Keg King ekements are the REASON why i sought to offer an alternative. Buy from my competitors by all means, but please stay away from these 2200 watt weldless elements from any source.

[MoonShine Guy]

Well I have a 15.5 keg that has one 220v 5500w with a controller on it and one 110v 2000w with a controller on it also. A 13 gal wash heat up in 35 mins. The 5500 is on a 30 amp ground fault circuit breaker and the 2000 is n a 20 amp ground fault circuit breaker. After it gets to temp, I turn off the 2000 one and run the 5500 and back that down to get a good run. I have a monster flute that stands 9 ft tall and it puts out a little over a gal an hour! So you see, you need a total of 50 amps to run this much electric heaters! If you have the power, go for it! Your time at the still will be reduce a lot! BTW, the heaters that I use are the same ones used in hot water heaters. You can get these at big box stores like Home Depot, Lowe's to name some! I had some 1" stainless steel coupling cut in two half's and welded to the lower end of the keg to screw in the heating elements with no leaks. Make sure you have a ground wire hook up to the keg in case it would short out!

[wombat]

Gday ticknaylor,

Tick - you mention ya wanta do it the best way - well give 5Star a PM what ya after or going to do.
I am in the process of heating up a 18 gal keg , using a 3600 and a 2400 watt on separate circuits - on order - ( australia).
Ya will require a 15 amp circuit for the 3600 ---a 10 amp for the 2400 ( 2 separate circuits )
Plus on order is a power control unit from Panda.

I propose to get to temp as quick as possible, turn off a element then use the other through the power control unit .

At the end of the day I believe it to be a good setup as well as staying alive to drink the product.

Comments please

wombat

[stilly_bugger]

Can I ask a serious question? :angry-soapbox:

Should we distinguish between what's reasonable advice for a hobby distiller or weekend warrior (like me and many others) and what's reasonable advice for someone who wants to produce a tonne of swill?

A lot of people come to this forum, I suspect, looking for advice on how to improve the hobby kit they have within the limits of their existing infrastructure.

Is it therefore worth separating the advice on what's the best they can do within the limits of your average 10A home circuitry from the advice on what's the best they can do if they're prepared to call in a sparky and pay him or her $200 to put in a 15amp powerpoint?

I understand that there will be people who already have 15amp circuits and people who are willing to fork out to have a 15amp circuit put in, but I suspect that the vast majority of people just want to do the best they can on one or two standard 10amp circuits, which means (as far as I know, which isn't very far) a limit of 2,400W per circuit.

Plus, are the time savings for your average hobbyist that come from running more than 4,800W really worth the hassle of putting in a 15amp circuit. I mean, is it worth having a 15amp circuit put in to save maybe 10min of heat-up time on a 50L keg reflux run and 45min on a 50L keg strip run?

:handgestures-thumbupleft:

[R-sole]

Can I ask a serious question? :angry-soapbox:

Should we distinguish between what's reasonable advice for a hobby distiller or weekend warrior (like me and many others) and what's reasonable advice for someone who wants to produce a tonne of swill?

A lot of people come to this forum, I suspect, looking for advice on how to improve the hobby kit they have within the limits of their existing infrastructure.

Is it therefore worth separating the advice on what's the best they can do within the limits of your average 10A home circuitry from the advice on what's the best they can do if they're prepared to call in a sparky and pay him or her $200 to put in a 15amp powerpoint?

I understand that there will be people who already have 15amp circuits and people who are willing to fork out to have a 15amp circuit put in, but I suspect that the vast majority of people just want to do the best they can on one or two standard 10amp circuits, which means (as far as I know, which isn't very far) a limit of 2,400W per circuit.

Plus, are the time savings for your average hobbyist that come from running more than 4,800W really worth the hassle of putting in a 15amp circuit. I mean, is it worth having a 15amp circuit put in to save maybe 10min of heat-up time on a 50L keg reflux run and 45min on a 50L keg strip run?

:handgestures-thumbupleft:

I don't find that question reasonable. I find it offensive.

The fact that you are labelling everyone that may already have a 15 amp power socket, or who just wants to spend the money to do it right (or has a sparkie mate or relative) as wanting 'a tonne of swill' is doing nothing towards making you seem reasonable.

People are unlikely to have two standard 10 amp (16amp) curcuits in the same room as i understand it. You will normally find your power points are on different curcuits in different parts of the house.

Fact is that someone who wants to run a 4' bubbler may not be able to do that on a 2400 watt single element. Fact is that someone who wants to run a 3" packed column will almost certainly not get the results they will be looking for on a single 2400 watt element.

I'm not going to continue arguing with you over the safety of these elements. I don't understand really why you are trying to justify them.
I'm convinced they are no good and i'm going to tell everyone who i think may be unaware of the dangers of them at every opportunity.

I don't care if they switch to gas (i spose us gas users are after a 'tonne of swill' too) or use good old box wood, but there are alternatives to these elements out there.

[stilly_bugger]

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend. :oops:

I just thought that a guy who asks for advice about upgrading from a 20L boiler to a 50L keg is probably not running something like a 3" reflux column or 4" bubbler.

But I could be wrong, so I'll :silent:

[MacStill]

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend. :oops:

I just thought that a guy who asks for advice about upgrading from a 20L boiler to a 50L keg is probably not running something like a 3" reflux column or 4" bubbler.

But I could be wrong, so I'll :silent:

You have every right to say your piece, as does 5Star....... Which you've both done respectfully :clap:

That is what this place is all about ;-)

[ticknaylor]

Thanks for the replys fella's your a good bunch of blokes. Going to speak to my old man he's a retired sparky and suss what he reckons. Cheers goldie for your info on parts, moonshine guy for info on your set up, 5Star been looking at your site and cheers for all your input to this whole site I'd rather pay the shipping and give the money to a fellow hobbiest if i go down that path, then a big company thats gunna shaft everyone in the long run, and wombat cheers for your input. Stilly bugger im just a weekend warrior like you. But I'd rather know the info people from people who know a shitload more than i do and make my own informed decision. I thought the whole idea of this site was for a bunch of blokes to share there wealth of knowledge for the greater good of everyone. Doesn't mean you agree with everything or everything is relevant to yourself, point is it's out there for you to decide. Thats why I'd welcome anyones advice/experiences. I made alot of stuff ups making this first still but shit its been worth it and when its all done im gunna pass it on so other people don't do the same. Cheers and happy drinking.

[stilly_bugger]

Stilly bugger ... I thought the whole idea of this site was for a bunch of blokes to share there wealth of knowledge for the greater good of everyone.

'ken oath :handgestures-thumbupleft:

When I saw your post it reminded me of when I put out a similar call for advice while I was looking to buy a welder. I got a heap of people saying 'Go big', 'Don't buy Chinese made', etc without actually considering what it was that I was going to be welding with the machine and how often I'd be using it. Now, based on the good rep that 5Star has around here, he would never sell you something that you don't need. That goes without saying. The point I was trying to make was that sometimes (at least I know this is what I do) there's a temptation to go 'balls and all' when upgrading equipment. It may not be necessary. In fact, overpower a reflux column and you'll reduce its performance. Just be aware of that when buying your element, wherever you buy it.

That said, if there are no safe weldless elements, avoid them.

Anyway, stick around. It's a good place.

[ticknaylor]

Yeah been guilty of that trying make things happen before thinking it through . So what makes these weldless connections so dangerous ? Earthing problems?

[R-sole]

Yeah been guilty of that trying make things happen before thinking it through . So what makes these weldless connections so dangerous ? Earthing problems?

There's links here to read that report the problems.

[ticknaylor]

Yeah sorry I hadn't read all the links makes sense though 5Star they do sound like they have issues. I'm trying to decide if i should go with an element or a gas burner now. Mcstill that post you wrote on soft solder can you soft solder the ferrule to the keg to take punkins set up or is it something you gotta TIG? Sorry if its a stupid question but photos of joins you posted didnt involve something as large as a keg. Even if i make one of those gas burners like cup cakes i figure I'm going to have to TIG the brass fitting to the steel pipe anyway. The whole gas burner versus element sounds like the brass fittings debate so I'm not gunna open up a can of worms and ask that question :))

[R-sole]

You can stick weld a 1" stainless socket for a simple and cheap mount for a screw in element. Just means you have to then make an enclosure for your element wiring using a small pvc box or some such. You just need a stainless welding rod.

Simarly you could stickweld or mig a stainless ferrule on to the keg to take an element guard. Tig is the best, but the stick welds come up beautifully in the right hands.

Have you got a mate that is a boilermaker or a gun welder that could do it at home or take it to work for you? Or ask your mates if they have any mates?

[MacStill]

As 5Star says it'd be best to get it welded, but if you dont have the resources to do that you have nothing to lose by trying to solder it on.

If it doesnt work then your back to getting it welded, just means you'd need to file off the solder to clean the joint back up.

[ticknaylor]

yeah i know someone who's a coded welder who would do a schmick job but it kinda takes the fun out of it. I didnt realise you could stick weld stainless think i might get some tungsten rods and give it a go I'm much better at stick welding then soldering. Just gotta work out what I wanna do with the elements and I'm still waiting on my parts from uxcell for my controller so its gunna be awhile before i get it done. Cheers for the wise words fellas.

[kiwikeg]

looking at adding a second element to sputnik- Are these the dodgey ones? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =491886489
might be a stupid question but Why cant I just use a Electric jug element?

[Goldie]

Yes that is the Keg King weldless elements but they only retail for around $40 here in Aus. Is that advert for two elements? If not, that is alot of $$$ for one...