How to.... easy, easy flange.

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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby bluc » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:28 pm

Canuck... how did your soft soldered flange work out has it held up ok? Also is the join structural that you use the soft soldered flange on?

How do i tell if my torch can be used with mapp gas its one of these btw http://www.bunnings.com.au/tradeflame-p ... t_p5910245.
Just noticed it says in description solders to max 40mm diameter but didnt have trouble today soldering 50mm joins...
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby WTDist » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:05 pm

I use
pp.jpg

Looks like mapp gas can attach/ they have the same joint thingy whatever that's called (top of the gas bottle and thread). Im only 1/4 through my bottle and i have another spare but if you add mapp let me know. Ive looked and they look the same.

This one has worked well for me and has a heat range of 1900degC. Ive annealed and soft soldered but i want to make flanges and reducers so i hope it works. Ive been told it will do the job :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby bluc » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:37 pm

Yea i want map for flanges also(hard solder) will grab a botgle and see how it goes gotta try and track down the pipe to make the rings..
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby WTDist » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:19 am

imgoing to rip out my old t500 coil and use that. its 1/4" and already wound mostly. ill just anneal and widen the coil or something
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby bluc » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:12 pm

How are people winding the pipe to make the rings are you filling the pipe with salt/sand then just coiling by hand?
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby WTDist » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:29 pm

anneal the pipe then with tension wrap it around the pipe you want to flange. I think coppers around 700 degrees.

I found thison bunnings. might give it a go.
Does anyone know if i can use this for making reducers also?

product description below...

Consolidated Alloys supply a wide range of Brazing Alloys for the plumbing, air conditioning, motor radiator and general engineering industries.

Available diameters 2.4mm and 3.0mm in 2%, 5% and 15% silver
Perfect joining material for use in the brazing process
Wide range available for a variety of uses
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby P3T3rPan » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:32 pm

The higher the silver content the easier it is to braze with
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby P3T3rPan » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:39 pm

bluc wrote:How are people winding the pipe to make the rings are you filling the pipe with salt/sand then just coiling by hand?

never needed to anneal or fill the rings to wind them around, just steady pressure (pulling)
I usually make several loops around the pipe then clamp both ends of the ring pipe to the larger pipe and cut through all of them with a fine blade hacksaw (32 teeth per inch)
This way you can cut all of them at once
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby WTDist » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:56 pm

thanks peterpan. Might go the 15 my first time then. Is this good for reducers and being in contact with vapor?

Only reason i mentioned anneal is because that's what i was told previously. would it make it easier for me if i did? i have a fair bit of propane gas to use
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby scythe » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:44 am

Annealing makes it so much easier to bend, but its not required as 1/4" is usually sold as a soft coil.
unless its 2nd hand.
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby P3T3rPan » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:12 am

:text-+1:
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby WTDist » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:34 am

Ok i was at bunnings today and they didnt have any in stock although their computer said they had 24 or something. Looks like people have been getting the 5 finger discount to much with the brazing rods :laughing-rolling:
The lady said a lot of soldering stuff goes missing :shifty: lol
Not me though im too honest.

Anyway ive read that mac uses 2% silver brazing rods and uses no flux on page 4 of this thread. While i was looking for the rods at bunnings i saw brazing flux.
Can you use braze with flux and without? Just dont want to buy some rods to find i need flux later. Id rather not spend the money on a brazing flux im only going to use a couple of times. Also if it is not needed for brazing then will this work for reducers too, braze them with no flux?

Thanks
WTD
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby Sam. » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:01 pm

My understanding is you don't need flux for copper to copper but would use it for copper to other :-B
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby dogbreath vodka » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:39 pm

:text-+1:
I don't use any flux with 2% 5% or even 10% silver solder on copper to copper.

The only time I've used flux was when I was going over soft solder with 5% silver.
The two will form a new alloy but. . . you need to flux it.

See here middle of the page for what I did on SP2.
SP2

If you are not sure. . . practice on scrap
Also to keep your joins neat,
Where you don't want the solder to run (as silver solder has a habit of doing)
Put liquid paper / white out or whatever they call it.... on the place you don't want the solder to go.
:D :D :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby WTDist » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:52 pm

Cheers DBV, already bought the white out weeks ago in anticipation of this
Ill give it a go. mostly copper to copper but one ring will be on SS. This builds taking me a lot longer than i thought but i keep changing my design :laughing-rolling:
It will be an interesting 2" when im done, hopefully if i dont stuff it up :roll:
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby P3T3rPan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:38 am

You will need flux to braze to ss but not copper to copper
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby WTDist » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:05 am

Im wanting to do my flange rings soon but havent got any hard solder yet and dont think i will until next week but im wondering if i can get away with soft solder :think:

Im going to use the 1/4" coil inside my T500 and this is already wound nicely in what looks like an inch diameter coil. I was planing on annealing it and wrapping it around the 2" with the part thats already coiled.

Considering how wound this is and that it may be tight im wondering if i can get away with cutting it to shape, flattening it out in place, (clamp it in place so it wont move) and then just soft soldering it on without brazing the ring ends??

Has anyone done this before or attempted the flanges with only soft solder and if so any tips?

Want to get a move on on my build but wont have a brazing rod anytime soon (maybe next week) :roll:
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby dogbreath vodka » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:11 am

You should be able to do it.
Make sure there isn't any tension in the ring IE anneal it well.

Then keep the heat away from the join initially.
Work from the opposite side first.
Clamp something over the join. This will act as a heatsink and the join will not reach melting temp as quickly.
Vice grips are good, but not too tight as they will cause the opposite side to lift a little.

As the solder cools opposite the join it should hold the flange in place.
Remove the vice grips and finish soldering.

:handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby WTDist » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:14 pm

tried heating my 1/4" ring to braise before. seemed like i was at it 10 mins. No go with my torch. it heated the braising rod but not the pipe enough. Thought i would post this in case others with mine give it a crack. Not saying it cant be done, just maybe not for a while ay need another heat source. Cracked my stone i solder in before it got hot too :teasing-tease:

looks like i will do mine with just soft solder
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Re: How to.... easy, easy flange.

Postby woodduck » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:33 am

Try putting it in a vise or stand the ring up, if it's laying down flat the bench, stone, whatever will draw too much heat out. The other thing to remember is that the hottest part of the flame is at the end of the blue. It sometimes feels like the torch is too far away when we do this but give it a try.
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