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Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:54 pm
by Wobblyboot
A new boiler is in the future, working out the options. Looked into steam and now looking into an agitator as an alternative :confusion-shrug: I run on a 4ring burner so either is looking good. This will be my dedicated boiler for bourbon, mash, ferment and distill in boiler :handgestures-thumbupleft: What type of seals are used and where to get them from? Mechanical, gland or other? Would these be any good https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/123/3559/=189asd0 as they seem ok or has someone used something else?

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:54 pm
by Doubleuj
Why agitate a boiler? I cannot possibly see the benefit. It doesn't increase the heat and the natural convection of hot vs colder liquid will agitate itself, imho :-B

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:04 pm
by Wobblyboot
Doubleuj wrote:Why agitate a boiler? I cannot possibly see the benefit. It doesn't increase the heat and the natural convection of hot vs colder liquid will agitate itself, imho :-B

It's so I can do all grain without straining :-B

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:09 pm
by warramungas
I'm only spitballing but agitating boilers removes any temperature gradients and should allow faster heat up time in an insulated or steam jacket boiler. Probably not so much with a hobby boiler.
I don't think even the big boys distill on the grain. Or are you talking about mashing?

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:24 pm
by Doubleuj
Wobblyboot wrote:
Doubleuj wrote:Why agitate a boiler? I cannot possibly see the benefit. It doesn't increase the heat and the natural convection of hot vs colder liquid will agitate itself, imho :-B

It's so I can do all grain without straining :-B

So pour the whole mash into the boiler grain and all and the agitation stops the grain from settling down and burning?

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:35 pm
by Wobblyboot
Doubleuj wrote:
Wobblyboot wrote:
Doubleuj wrote:Why agitate a boiler? I cannot possibly see the benefit. It doesn't increase the heat and the natural convection of hot vs colder liquid will agitate itself, imho :-B

It's so I can do all grain without straining :-B

So pour the whole mash into the boiler grain and all and the agitation stops the grain from settling down and burning?

Exactly :handgestures-thumbupleft: but for me as a non-rum drinking bourbon or whiskey man, I'd like it for corn mainly :dance:

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:38 pm
by Sam.
Wobblyboot wrote:will be my dedicated boiler for bourbon, mash, ferment and distill in boiler :handgestures-thumbupleft:


I get what you want to do but I don't reckon there is anyone that even does this commercially :think:

Not saying it can't be done but I reckon it would be quite involved and like what you linked to you are going to have to have some good seals of some sort I would imagine to have a mechanical drive on it.

How about a false bottom in it for the grain to stop touching the bottom for flame or element?

Also I would put an overpressure valve in the top of the still in case of a nasty puke ;-)

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:44 pm
by bluc
Heat it high up in the boiler rather than the bottom :think:

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:49 pm
by Wobblyboot
Sam. wrote:
Wobblyboot wrote:will be my dedicated boiler for bourbon, mash, ferment and distill in boiler :handgestures-thumbupleft:


I get what you want to do but I don't reckon there is anyone that even does this commercially :think:

Not saying it can't be done but I reckon it would be quite involved and like what you linked to you are going to have to have some good seals of some sort I would imagine to have a mechanical drive on it.

How about a false bottom in it for the grain to stop touching the bottom for flame or element?

Also I would put an overpressure valve in the top of the still in case of a nasty puke ;-)

The floured grain would go straight thru a false bottom. I'd put a 3 or 4 plate 4" bubbler over it.

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:50 pm
by Wobblyboot
bluc wrote:Heat it high up in the boiler rather than the bottom :think:

4 ring burner only heats it up at bottom :teasing-tease:

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:57 pm
by Sam.
So how are you planning on making the agitator :-B

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:05 pm
by Wobblyboot
Sam. wrote:So how are you planning on making the agitator :-B

Only a very vague plan so far...240v motor, a shaft, some kind of seal, some input from the very intelligent fellas in this place :D

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:21 pm
by bluc
Wobblyboot wrote:
bluc wrote:Heat it high up in the boiler rather than the bottom :think:

4 ring burner only heats it up at bottom :teasing-tease:

Unless you cut a hole through middle weld in a pipe then make a custom burner..or put in an electrical element.

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:23 pm
by Sam.
I would assume you would need either a blade configuration sweeping near the bottom or a "rummager" chain like some big scottish outfits use.

Are you planning on using the agitator for mashing as well?

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:30 pm
by Wobblyboot
Sam. wrote:I would assume you would need either a blade configuration sweeping near the bottom or a "rummager" chain like some big scottish outfits use.

Are you planning on using the agitator for mashing as well?

Planning on it being more like a blade but for mashing as well :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:32 pm
by Minpac
I think it would be more manageable to create a jacketed boiler to make it indirect heat than deal with alcohol vapour getting into a drive system.

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:35 pm
by Wobblyboot
Minpac wrote:I think it would be more manageable to create a jacketed boiler to make it indirect heat than deal with alcohol vapour getting into a drive system.

It may be but this isn't what it's about.

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:50 pm
by Sam.
Wobblyboot wrote:
Minpac wrote:I think it would be more manageable to create a jacketed boiler to make it indirect heat than deal with alcohol vapour getting into a drive system.

It may be but this isn't what it's about.


:text-+1: I would like to see what ideas can be had from this :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:01 pm
by Doubleuj
Sam. wrote:
Wobblyboot wrote:
Minpac wrote:I think it would be more manageable to create a jacketed boiler to make it indirect heat than deal with alcohol vapour getting into a drive system.

It may be but this isn't what it's about.


:text-+1: I would like to see what ideas can be had from this :handgestures-thumbupleft:

:text-+1: :text-+1: so am I, if it can be done safely, with no vapour leak it could be a winner.
What if you had a double seal? One seal on the wall of the boiler and then an "element guard" type protrusion and another seal?
Would over heating the corn/ grain give any off flavours?

Re: Agitator

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:19 am
by bayshine
Sam. wrote:
Wobblyboot wrote:will be my dedicated boiler for bourbon, mash, ferment and distill in boiler :handgestures-thumbupleft:


I get what you want to do but I don't reckon there is anyone that even does this commercially :think:

Not saying it can't be done but I reckon it would be quite involved and like what you linked to you are going to have to have some good seals of some sort I would imagine to have a mechanical drive on it.

How about a false bottom in it for the grain to stop touching the bottom for flame or element?

Also I would put an overpressure valve in the top of the still in case of a nasty puke ;-)


This is exactly what I'm trying to set up aswell wobbly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
I think you will find that most commercial bourbon makers use an agitator with there stripping still,if you goggle search still boiler agitator you will find plenty of setups ;-)