Is this possible if not ideas please

[googe]

Continuous untill it ended, I guess :laughing-rolling:

Nahh, its still a batch still

It's all Japanese to me, can't get my head around it :angry-banghead:

[blond.chap]

In the vein of this thread, I was wondering if this would work (or whether I'm missing something really basic):

2 RCs.jpg

The idea is that you use the plated sections a bit like a stripper in the big commercial stills, except that at the top there is a RC. Then allowing the stripped vapour (at around 90%), to pass to the bottom of a smaller diameter packed column, which has reflux controlled by a 2nd RC. Excess reflux from the 2nd RC is passed back to an inline thumper so it doesn't go straight back to the boiler.

The vapour line between the 1st and 2nd columns could also have a bypass so you can run it without the packed column for wash flavoured spirits without needing to reconfigure.

The reason I'm thinking about this is that I have limited head space, and my shortish packed section isn't giving me the purity I'd like.

[Kimbo]

I think this would work with a couple of modifications.
1) Have a valve at the excess reflux return- to be able to control how much reflux is returned
2) have a valve just before the second RC, for 2 reasons.
i)To stop the vapour from bypassing the packed section and directing it down to the bottom of the packed section
ii)you can run it just as a plated column when you want

[blond.chap]

Cool, thanks for looking it over Kimbo,

Would controlling the amount of reflux leaving the 2nd column work? It won't have a heat source passing through it so I was thinking the liquid would need to be entirely removed to prevent flooding and avoid causing back pressure if the liquid level goes above the vapour inlet from the 1st column.

I think I made the valve controlling the bypass a little small on the image. Might be a good use for a 3 way gate valve (if there is such a thing) otherwise when only running the plated section you could get some vapour going to the 2nd column.

[Kimbo]

Its going to be tricky, a real balancing act trying to run a rig like that ( but not impossible)
I was thinking you would control how much reflux goes back to the boiler, the heat will come from the first column.
Yes, a 3way gate valve could work ;-)

[blond.chap]

What if rather than using a valve for the reflux, it could have a perforated palate with a downcomer to maintain a set amount of liquid the column, the vapour from the 1st column could then be fed below providing a heat source, the pipe for the overflow could be below the vapour.

It wouldn't be too much trouble I don't think, I was thinking of the following as the operating procedure:

1. Start up the first column at full reflux, let it equilibrate
2. Bleed off the foreshots while bypassing the 2nd column (could do this after step 3 possibly)
3. Direct the vapour to the 2nd column, at full reflux, let it equilibrate
4. Start collecting heads

As long as the 1st column doesn't get disrupted it shouldn't be much more difficult to run (hopefully).

The advantage I'm seeing with this is that you can get a higher height-to-diameter ratio on the packed column, without sacrificing take-off rate, as you're only going to be directing a fraction of the original vapour to the 2nd column. Does this sound right? Or am I in the territory of perpetual motion theory?

[Kimbo]

In theory, it sounds like it will work :handgestures-thumbupleft:
It will be much easier to run if you just have the packed section on top of the plated section.
That way you wont be constantly adjusting 2 reflux condensers and balancing them at the beginning and end of each run ;-)

[blond.chap]

Cool, I'll keep thinking about it, its certainly simpler to just have it on top. There's also a loss of efficiency in returning the reflux from the 2nd column to the thumper rather than the top plate. I don't know whether there's such a thing as a cheap hot ethanol pump though.

[Brendan]

The $25-$30 little brown pump can handle the temp and is food grade...would have to look into using it for ethanol though :think:

[blond.chap]

Cheers Brendan, I'd be a bit worried too about it stripping the plastic.

There must be pumps out there, because continuous stills generally run 2 adjacent columns and ethanol from low down in one is pumped up to a high point on the other. Just a question of whether small, relatively cheap ones are available.

[crow]

The reason I'm thinking about this is that I have limited head space, and my shortish packed section isn't giving me the purity I'd like.

Not knocking that this may work but the question needs to be asked! why!
If the above is your reason you would be infinity better off getting a couple of 4" tees and making up two more plates. You only run three yeah? that might be hard to get it to pure and without checking you were only going to try 4 or 500 mm of packing , I never really thought that was going to work . Alternatively you could build a thumper at the base and maybe one more plate and that should work with your packing or it could be as simple as a lot more packing.
Any of the mentioned Alternatives would be much less work a lot less money and much more functional than what you have proposed IMHO :twocents-mytwocents:

[blond.chap]

All fair points crow, I'm mainly just playing with options at this point.
I've just finished a 4th plate section and if that (with the 400mm packed section) doesn't tip it over, I'll give a thumper a shot before trying anything else.

[crow]

All fair points crow, I'm mainly just playing with options at this point.
I've just finished a 4th plate section and if that (with the 400mm packed section) doesn't tip it over, I'll give a thumper a shot before trying anything else.

yeah 400 is on the short side of short for 4" I would think BTW what is it packed with

[blond.chap]

Packed with scoria, it's only that short because I had an off-cut.

[crow]

Packed with scoria, it's only that short because I had an off-cut.

Ok well if its all big chunks like you might get from a BBQ joint there will be a lot of void that may well stop it from working efficiently. if this is the case get some smaller grade or crush some to fill the voids :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[blond.chap]

They're fairly small pieces from a landscaping place. However it seems to be a mix of very porous pieces and some normal looking stones. So I might spend a (very boring) bit of time separating out the good bits, then give it another shot.

Cheers mate, appreciate your input

[Aussiedownunder01]

Best scoria i have seen is baccasmarsh [sounds like ] garden supply

[emptyglass]

Noble idea Blond. No reason why it wouldn't work with a few mods, like kimbo said. You could delete the connection between the top where the striped vapor runs and the top of the 2nd r/c. Then you really have the start of a side-by-side column set up.

But I agree with crow, Why?
Add 2 plates and you got some real clean flavor coming through.

[blond.chap]

Yep that sounds like a good start, 5 plates, a thumper and some Scotia should be a decent start. I guess this may be of more use if you wanted a much bigger column, and didn't want it too high.

I might make it if I get bored after the thumper.

[bt1]

Howdy,

I run a six plater mainly cos the idea was to pursue a "cleaner" Irish style. It does that. I also run a short 300mm rock filter section. I'm not suggesting this is ideal or optimal but gee the spirit I get is really a nice drop. I'd love to really be able to test what the rock equals in terms of plates effect...but she's also subjective at the end of the day.

I reckon the design you've posted plus mods like a vapour fluid lock to return etc is a workable design, it will work, sure it will take some time and effort but what the fuck else is more important right now ?

In the spirit of the googe posts re thinking/designs... say if your keen get on with it... why the hell not.

You'll impart a lot of satisfaction from a First of it's type for current members... have a crack...Its part art, part science and 80% your will...do it!


bt1