Getting my elements wired up... help please.

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Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:38 pm

Hi guys,

I'm getting a little closer to getting my still set up... next step is getting my dual FSD 2400w heating elements wired up... and I've connected in with a local electrician who is happy to do the work.

I've had a brief chat with him... but I walked away from the conversation thinking that me and him may not be on the same page. Now before he goes and does any work, or buys any supplies I just want to get the advice from the forum members.

He was talking about wiring up the elements to a pretty short length, and then advising me to purchase a suitable length of extension cord at Bunnings.

That not sitting quite right with me... I more had in mind having one length of cord... and I was hoping to avoid having to add in extra leads.

I'd really appreciate some sound advice. I can get any gear or equipment I need, and provide it to the electrician to wire professionally as theres heaps of stores near me. Money/budget isn't an issue... I just want to get it done right.

Hoping you guys can point me in the right direction ASAP! ^:)^

Cheers,

T
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby bluc » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:58 pm

If your wall socket is close no need for a extension cord. Mine go from element straight to wall :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:20 pm

For clarification... I don't think either of the cords he is proposing will reach any of the sockets.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby rahl » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:11 pm

We use the same elements and had 2.5m leads put on them. I can't see a problem with them being a bit longer. Ours are long enough to reach the 2 power points we usually use. Occasionally we put one on an extension lead to reach a third circuit because one of the other circuits has to share with a cold room. For us, the main downside of the long leads is it makes the boiler a bit awkward to move around with the leads coiled up on the side.
Last edited by rahl on Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby woodduck » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:29 pm

I have short 3mtr leads made up. I went heavy as possible and used 15amp plugs. If money isn't an issue get him to run new 15amp line to where your boiler is so you don't need long leads. I don't like the idea of long 10amp leads on boilers, these elements draw a fair amount of power. If you have to use 10amp leads make sure they aren't wrapped up when using them. They will get hot where the cable touches itself. I would keep all leads as short as practical.

Good luck
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:56 pm

Thanks guys.

So just to clarify... I'm looking to shoot for around 3 meter leads... with the heavier gauge wire normally used for 15 amp... but with 10 amp plugs to avoid overheating?

The electrical elements I'm plugging into are standard 10amp.

If I'm understanding what you are saying... the heavier gauge wire will be safer as it will run cooler due to less load on it?

Hope that makes sense!

T
Last edited by TBone on Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby bluc » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:18 pm

Yep
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby rahl » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:48 pm

+1 on using the heaviest leads possible. A heavier cable has less resistance so it won't get as hot as a lighter cable over the same distance. A 15 amp lead over 3 m should be fine. I think you can get away with a 10 amp plug because the main difference between them is a bigger earth pin on the 15 amp plug.

You do need to make sure your power points and circuits are up to the job, especially if you're planning to use the same circuit. If you are sure that you have access to 2 separate circuits then you should be okay as long as there are no other large loads on there. If you are not sure and the electrician is coming to your place to wire up the elements, ask them to check your circuits over.

If you do have to run a new circuit for the boiler, ask the electrician to make sure the circuit can take at least 20 amps, something like 4 mm² cable and a 25 amp circuit breaker. 2.5 mm² cable typically uses a 16 amp circuit breaker which is too small to run two 10 amp elements. You may need seperate power points on that circuit too because I don't believe even a double 15 amp power point is rated to carry 20 amps, though I am happy to be proven wrong.

Disclaimer: not an electrician!
Last edited by rahl on Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:02 pm

Thanks very much guys!

I also came across this thread which I also found helpful.

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4757/

8-ball wrote "Mate u want 2.5mm^2 2 core and earth flex cable"

I have two large electrical supply businesses near me... so I think I might pop in and see if they have that kind of cable, and buy a few heavy duty 10 amp plugs.

Then I'll have the electrician wire it up for me, but I'll have some peace of mind that I have fit for purpose cable.

And good idea to have the electrician check out my plugs to confirm seperate circuits... finger crossed I have two circuits running in my kitchen. I'm pretty sure I do.
Last edited by TBone on Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby Fatguts » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:36 pm

Ill start by saying im not an electrician but I do wire up my own electrical projects. We have to remember that one 2400 watt element (being run flat out), divided by 240 volts, equals 10 amps. So in this scenario we are on the maximum recommended amperage for a 10 amp circuit and socket. Im not suggesting or recommending that this is acceptable or not but Its the way i have been running mine and have had no problems. I have noticed that the cords do warm up. I have two 2400 watt elements in my still and have to run each on different circuits as most people do. One is a short 2 meter run in the shed and the other is via a 25 meter, 10 amp extension cord from my house into the shed. The cords dont get burning or melting hot, but enough to notice the heat. I've never really been comfortable with being on the 10 amp recommended limit and soon will be having 2 dedicated 15 amp circuits installed to allow for a bigger safety and overload margin. I was taught (and this could be wrong with the ever changing electrical codes) that 2.5mm twin and earth cable is the standard for short runs on a 10 amp circuit and 4mm cable is used for a 15 amp circuit however this is dependent on the length of cable from the fuse and weather it is run thru conduit or installed bare. Its entirely up to you but I reckon 15 amp is the way to go.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby ant b » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:20 am

A 2.5mm cable is capable of supplying around 23-25 amps depending on the method of installation, so is fine, safe and compliant on a 20amp circuit breaker.
This is the size of the cable connecting the power point to the supply
1.5mm cable has a maximum rated capacity of between 10 and 15 amps, so its right on the limit. This is what extension leads are made from and why they get hot
some are also only 1mm if you are getting a new lead check the conductor size
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:03 pm

Just a short update guys...

I found the heavier duty orange cable, and then also found 10amp heavy duty plugs that naturally accommodated the cable size.

And I was incorrect before... all my circuits where I will be running the still are set up for 15amps.

So I'm well withing comfortable and safe tolerances.

Thanks again for the support! :happy-partydance:
Last edited by TBone on Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby Fatguts » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:00 pm

ant b wrote:A 2.5mm cable is capable of supplying around 23-25 amps depending on the method of installation, so is fine, safe and compliant on a 20amp circuit breaker.
This is the size of the cable connecting the power point to the supply
1.5mm cable has a maximum rated capacity of between 10 and 15 amps, so its right on the limit. This is what extension leads are made from and why they get hot
some are also only 1mm if you are getting a new lead check the conductor size


Thanks for clearing that up. That in itself has led me to question my abilities. If the 2.5mm cable is capable of supplying 23-25 amps safely and compliant, on a 20amp breaker, would you need to change the power point to something higher than 10amp if you were pulling more than 10 amps thru the cable? Cheers.
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equipment: 2" all copper reflux still with a 2 meter packed column, 500 mm shotgun condenser and homemade parrot, all sitting on a 50 litre upside down beer keg boiler with 2 X 2400W elements.

Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby ant b » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:14 am

change power point to something higher than 10amp if you were pulling more than 10 amps thru the cable?

YES

The weakest point is the plug, they will start to melt before the cable due to higher resistance/surface area of pins and the material they are made from
10A plugs 3 small pins
15A plugs only have a larger earth pin to handle fault currents
20A plugs have all 3 pins larger to handle the larger current

If you are using pre-installed 10A power points on existing circuits, consider what else is on the circuit fridge, washing machine, dryer, iron, ect this will all draw current through a 2.5mm 2 cable at the same time
and this is why we use 2 separate circuits or get a stand alone circuit put in
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:25 am

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyfnjy79vq4g1 ... 4.jpg?dl=0

Hi guys... for future reference... this is the cable I used.

Really heavy duty... recommended.

T
Last edited by TBone on Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:11 pm

Updating with pics...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby bluc » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:51 pm

Sweet good looking keg :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:35 pm

Thanks Bluc... I'm pretty fond of her myself!

:music-deathmetal:
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby bluc » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:28 pm

How did you polish?
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Re: Getting my elements wired up... help please.

Postby TBone » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:26 pm

It was purchased new... and I really lucked out by getting a guy to make the boiler for me who's a real master with stainless steel. His name is Chris Banks... NZ based and does a lot of work for local breweries.

More info here Bluc...

viewtopic.php?t=4857

:handgestures-thumbupleft:
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