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Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:18 pm
by Irritable
So a friend of mine runs a pure still for neutral and does reasonably well out of it.

He is talking about now getting a pot atachment - either an alembic all copper of a small copper with lyne arm to suit his hbs boiler. (he has recently tasted some of my nutri grain that came out of my little hbs unit, so he's now moving away from neutrals as I am - but I know the direction I am taking, just need tax time to come lol)

Apart from the $$$ difference - What would be the difference, in terms of final product be between something like a HBS pot/alembic or a quality item from FSD ?
Does anyone have a alembic all copper head to suit a T500 or pure still - how do you find it ?

Has anyone upgraded from a T500 / Pure unit with pot to a 2 or 4 inch pot from FSD ?

Thanks
Si

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:32 pm
by WTDist
I think FSD will be the way to go unless you or your mate is handy with tools. Then i would build. you can makea pot for under $100. I think my T500 Mod is costing me about maybe 80$ and not much more, although i had to buy a propane torch n a few other bits n pieces to do the job.

I havnt heard a complaint from an FSD unit but the shop bought ones i have seen might lack in the condenser :think: The ones i have seen before had really short liebigs. Its the reason i never bought a potstill in the past before my knowledge on this forum, they looked like nothing at all

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:42 pm
by Zak Griffin
I've said it before and I'll say it again; if you want anything but neutral, any money you spend on a still that ISN'T a bubbler (or can be used as part of a bubbler) is money you have wasted.

Go FSD.

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:49 pm
by Professor Green
I have the alembic dome and condenser for the T500. It functions OK but like the t500 column, it is a little flimsy. The copper on the dome is not very thick and I think it would dent very easily if dropped or knocked hard. It does look fairly sexy though. As far as economics go, I just checked one of the shops in Melbourne and the alembic dome and condenser are $239 and $189 respectively (so $428 all up). The FSD 2" pot still is only $340 plus the cost of an adapter for the t500 lid. The 4" pot is more expensive at $585 but you do get a parrot with it AND it does offer an easy upgrade path to the top notch still models should the want arise. If I was to start from scratch again, I'd have gone with either of two FSD offerings from the get-go.

I have an FSD 4" pot on the way to me right now. It's built like a tank and I expect it will still be around and functioning long after I've turned up my toes.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:10 pm
by Irritable
Zak Griffin wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again; if you want anything but neutral, any money you spend on a still that ISN'T a bubbler (or can be used as part of a bubbler) is money you have wasted.

Go FSD.


I know my direction - I'm sourcing a keg as I type this and I'll be following the direction everyone else is going...my friend on the other hand is convinced of his direction and nothing i can do/say to stop him, he is doing what he will be doing - he even refuses to join up here, i assume because he either knows it all, or believes a HBS will not steer him wrong. :angry-banghead:

BUT before I get to see a bubbler in my little hands, before i can understand the benefits in person...I'd like to know more.
Everyone acknowledges that a bubbler is the best type of still out there, but I am still(get it) - even after a fair amount of reading - trying to understand why and how the bubblers are so effective.
I see the vapour paths on videos and understand the interaction between the refluxing liquid hitting the rising vapours etc and i can see a lot of stripping potential - but I am not sure i understand the flavour retention but am learning that as well.
What about time ? what about water - are there not two water inputs and outputs to a bubbler ?
I read that bubblers can pull high ABV and still retain flavour - but what if this is not what someone is after ? Maybe someone wants to pull "authentic ABV" from a traditional still set up - is it possible to run the bubblers like this - or is that their beauty, complete versatility ?


Si

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:50 am
by stattonb
I was gonna buy the dome and condenser but ended up getting a pot still condenser for the t500 after getting it plus clamp and t500 adapter only cost me $200 and it works a treat,beats paying $450.

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:28 pm
by scythe
Its the beauty of a bubbler.
Reduce the number of plates and the %ABV reduces and flavour increases, if you run it faster the ABV will drop but you will possibly get smearing of the hearts with heard and tails, which is true of all stills.

What do you mean by "authentic" ?

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:34 pm
by rumdidlydum
scythe wrote:Its the beauty of a bubbler.
Reduce the number of plates and the %ABV reduces and flavour increases, if you run it faster the ABV will drop but you will possibly get smearing of the hearts with heard and tails, which is true of all stills.

What do you mean by "authentic" ?

I wouldn't bother asking si any questions. :laughing-rolling:

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:13 am
by McMelloW
Because I brew beer I have bought a Grainfather. And also the Alembic Top with it..
The GF is fantasic for brewing beer or mashing a whisky wash.
The Alembic Top for the T500 fits also on a GF. See the picture of my set up.

Image

It works OK for distillig. However I changed a few thing.
The heating elemnts are 2000W and the condenser with the Alembic is only 30cm. This combination is not ideal. The heat is too much for the short conderser. IMHO

So I made a new column and uses miy own Liebig condener (60cm). The conection is very simple The nut for the condeser is 1.5" male thread. Just bought a connector 1.5" internal thread to 22mm copper. No changes are made to the dome or the original condenser
When I do a spirit run I use a little power controller to reduce the heat. The spirit comes out a bit slower. It all works to my satisfaction

Next step is to build a 2"boka and put it on the dome. I am already collecting the materials.
I know things can be different and cheaper. This is my way of distilling for a number of reasons.

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:52 am
by WalterWhite
Irritable wrote:
Zak Griffin wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again; if you want anything but neutral, any money you spend on a still that ISN'T a bubbler (or can be used as part of a bubbler) is money you have wasted.

Go FSD.


I know my direction - I'm sourcing a keg as I type this and I'll be following the direction everyone else is going...my friend on the other hand is convinced of his direction and nothing i can do/say to stop him, he is doing what he will be doing - he even refuses to join up here, i assume because he either knows it all, or believes a HBS will not steer him wrong. :angry-banghead:

BUT before I get to see a bubbler in my little hands, before i can understand the benefits in person...I'd like to know more.
Everyone acknowledges that a bubbler is the best type of still out there, but I am still(get it) - even after a fair amount of reading - trying to understand why and how the bubblers are so effective.
I see the vapour paths on videos and understand the interaction between the refluxing liquid hitting the rising vapours etc and i can see a lot of stripping potential - but I am not sure i understand the flavour retention but am learning that as well.
What about time ? what about water - are there not two water inputs and outputs to a bubbler ?
I read that bubblers can pull high ABV and still retain flavour - but what if this is not what someone is after ? Maybe someone wants to pull "authentic ABV" from a traditional still set up - is it possible to run the bubblers like this - or is that their beauty, complete versatility ?


Have a look here for starters viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3117#p46591

It spells out exactly how a bubbler works.

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:14 am
by wiifm
Irritable wrote:I know my direction - I'm sourcing a keg as I type this and I'll be following the direction everyone else is going...my friend on the other hand is convinced of his direction and nothing i can do/say to stop him, he is doing what he will be doing - he even refuses to join up here, i assume because he either knows it all, or believes a HBS will not steer him wrong. :angry-banghead:

BUT before I get to see a bubbler in my little hands, before i can understand the benefits in person...I'd like to know more.
Everyone acknowledges that a bubbler is the best type of still out there, but I am still(get it) - even after a fair amount of reading - trying to understand why and how the bubblers are so effective.
I see the vapour paths on videos and understand the interaction between the refluxing liquid hitting the rising vapours etc and i can see a lot of stripping potential - but I am not sure i understand the flavour retention but am learning that as well.
What about time ? what about water - are there not two water inputs and outputs to a bubbler ?
I read that bubblers can pull high ABV and still retain flavour - but what if this is not what someone is after ? Maybe someone wants to pull "authentic ABV" from a traditional still set up - is it possible to run the bubblers like this - or is that their beauty, complete versatility ?


Si

In MY view, there are two major differences between pot stilling and plated column stilling.

Time distilling: If you're pot stilling, the likely process is going to be do 3-4 stripping runs until you have enough low wines to charge the boiler, then do a slow spirit run. If you're running a 50L keg, probably 2-3 hours per run. It makes for a long weekend. Where will you store the low wines in the meantime? Do you have enough / big enough fermenters to fill the boiler 3-4 times?
If you're using a plated column, add your wash, do a spirit run. Repeat next weekend.

Smearing: If you're pot stilling, you have little to no control over smearing, so what do you do? Tight cuts? Longer on oak? With a plated column, the heads and tails are compressed, leaving room for a wider hearts cut.

If you want 'authentic abv', run with less plates. Yes that is the beauty of a modular setup.

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:51 am
by WTDist
Pretty sure Irratable has left the bulding :)) :)) :)) :))

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:03 pm
by wiifm
WTDist wrote:Pretty sure Irratable has left the bulding :)) :)) :)) :))

and here I was, trying to be helpful :laughing-rolling:

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:22 pm
by danwbrews
McMelloW wrote:Because I brew beer I have bought a Grainfather. And also the Alembic Top with it..
The GF is fantasic for brewing beer or mashing a whisky wash.
The Alembic Top for the T500 fits also on a GF. See the picture of my set up.

Image

It works OK for distillig. However I changed a few thing.
The heating elemnts are 2000W and the condenser with the Alembic is only 30cm. This combination is not ideal. The heat is too much for the short conderser. IMHO

So I made a new column and uses miy own Liebig condener (60cm). The conection is very simple The nut for the condeser is 1.5" male thread. Just bought a connector 1.5" internal thread to 22mm copper. No changes are made to the dome or the original condenser
When I do a spirit run I use a little power controller to reduce the heat. The spirit comes out a bit slower. It all works to my satisfaction

Next step is to build a 2"boka and put it on the dome. I am already collecting the materials.
I know things can be different and cheaper. This is my way of distilling for a number of reasons.



What kind of controller do you use. I have a Mash & Boil and would like to use it as a small pot still for Ouzo and first runs of rum and Irish Whiskey to collect backset.
I was just given the boiler and have just begun my quest into distilling.
Thanks,
Dan

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:47 pm
by Professor Green
McMelloW is probably not going to answer, he hasn't logged in for 4 years!

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:01 pm
by Tesla101
wiifm wrote:In MY view, there are two major differences between pot stilling and plated column stilling.

Time distilling: If you're pot stilling, the likely process is going to be do 3-4 stripping runs until you have enough low wines to charge the boiler, then do a slow spirit run. If you're running a 50L keg, probably 2-3 hours per run. It makes for a long weekend. Where will you store the low wines in the meantime? Do you have enough / big enough fermenters to fill the boiler 3-4 times?
If you're using a plated column, add your wash, do a spirit run. Repeat next weekend.

Smearing: If you're pot stilling, you have little to no control over smearing, so what do you do? Tight cuts? Longer on oak? With a plated column, the heads and tails are compressed, leaving room for a wider hearts cut.

If you want 'authentic abv', run with less plates. Yes that is the beauty of a modular setup.


This^^^^ ^:)^

Still true 5 years later. Wish I'd known that before going down the T500 rabbit hole (even though I pot still the stripping run and then reflux still the spirit run, it still takes a good 9 hours out of my weekend just to process a 25L wash).

All part of the learning journey I guess :whistle:

Re: Alembic and HBS pot stills attachments

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:34 pm
by southern45
As somebody who went through: AirStill, HBS Reflux Still, Copper 2” Pot, FSD 4 Plate Bubbler. I have one piece of advice for anyone really getting into this hobby...

BUY THE DAMN BUBBLER! :twisted:

(or a modular 4” pot that can be upgraded down the line)