Aussiedistiller, Home Distilling, Moonshine, Home Brew

G'day all. I have been doing some research on how to get copper packing in the T500 nice and clean. Several sources recommend acetic acid as being a good way to dispose of copper sulphate and get the copper nice and clean. Vinegar is 5% acetic acid but I want to try a somewhat stronger water/acid mix.

I have a small air still that I use for distilled water. Because acetic acid has a boiling point of about 118C I am considering running some white vinegar through that still with the purpose of reducing water content and so increasing the acetic acid ratio to water.

Has anyone tried this or has anyone got a thought on this method of getting a stronger acetic acid solution?

PS: Yes I know I can buy 75% acetic acid for $42.00 for 5 litres but the freight will cost about $70.00 across five suburbs because it is a "dangerous good".

Citric acid at 2% strength will do what you require :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I agree with Sam.
Run down to wollies and grab a small pack of citric acid from the baking isle and away you go.
But, do not leave it in the solution more that 24 - 48 hours

:text-+1: Citric acid from the brew shop at $10 /kilo,mix stronger or weaker.cheers hillzabilly ;-)

Thanks gents. I have both citric acid and acetic acid and have used them separately and together both in hot water and cold. The best results have come from using 4% acetic acid (white vinegar) on a hot plate for about an hour before rinsing thoroughly in running cold water and then neutralizing the copper back to pH 7.0 with sodium bicarbonate (baking powder).

The thinking behind my original question is that the higher I heat the water/acetic acid solution the better the result. So this is perhaps because the water is evaporating at a faster rate than the acetic acid so lowering the pH of the mixture. So if I started off with a higher acetic acid to water ratio and therefore a lower pH, I might get a quicker better result.

hillzabilly wrote::text-+1: Citric acid from the brew shop at $10 /kilo,mix stronger or weaker.cheers hillzabilly ;-)

Good suggestion and thank you. The problem is with both citric acid powder (McKenzies) and acetic acid (white vinegar) you can only lower the pH, increase the acidity by so much. I want to go beyond the 4-6% which both vinegar and citric acid powder allows.

Perhaps should have mentioned that the boiling point of acetic acid is 118C and the boiling point of citric acid is a whopping 310C so "boiling off" some of the water should be relatively straight forward.

Our mate on here Ned put me into using the TPW backset to clean the copper.

Ah ... now there's a thought. I will give it a try. Obviously what I am trying to achieve is a "rule" for cleaning old and new copper mesh. Nobody has actually written one yet, that I can find.

Adding heat to the equation will increase the reaction rate between the acid and the copper compounds. So as you correctly say, using heat speeds up the cleaning of your copper. I use this when I am in a hurry, I boil my copper in a citric acid solution

I don't understand why you require such a strong acidic solution to clean your copper. As others have said in this forum citric acid is more and capable of cleaning up your copper and can do it at lower concentrations (albiet just over a longer time frame).

You should be able to achieve a citric acid concentration greater than 4%, the juice of a lemon is already at around 4-5% citric acid. So rather than boil off water you could just add more power.

As hillzabilly said, citric acid is cheap from most homebrew stores, it has to be much cheaper than the power input to concentrate it up via reverse distillation.

I think we might be in danger of sliding off into a chemistry discussion here, but lets take that risk for a few more posts.

If I start off with 1 litre of solution (vinegar) that is 4% acid and 96% water and I boil off (evaporate) half the water I finish up with 480 mils of solution which is 8% acid.

If I add 1 kilo of soluble powder which is 2% citric acid to 1 litre of water I finish up with 1 litre of solution which is 2% acid. If I boil off half the water I end up with 500 mils of 2% acid. I therefore can only increase the percentage of citric acid if I can obtain citric acid in liquid at a known percentage and then reduce the water without reducing the acid.

Ahh I think I see where we are diverging now. I'm pretty sure the powdered citric acid you buy is close to pure (minus some caking agents etc but they would have to be minor) . So if you add 20g to 1 litre of water you have a 2% solution. Add 40g you have a 4% solution.

This citric acid is anhydrous (without water)

https://www.n-essentials.com.au/product ... anhydrous/

Therefore it's pretty much pure. I'm pretty sure the stuff you buy at the supermarket is similar.

MaKa wrote:Ahh I think I see where we are diverging now. I'm pretty sure the powdered citric acid you buy is close to pure (minus some caking agents etc but they would have to be minor) . So if you add 20g to 1 litre of water you have a 2% solution. Add 40g you have a 4% solution.

I feel sure you are correct although the label on the 75 grm container is no help at all. This, of course makes citric acid a fairly expensive option at $32.00 per kilo from Woolies. This, and my Scottish heritage, is what sent me looking for a less expensive, non-toxic option.

Acetic acid from 4% vinegar allows me to accurately calculate the percentage of acid by reducing the non acetic acid content and by logging the temperature of the cleaning solution I should be able to come up with a more accurate formula to define good copper cleaning.

It will be great of you and other community members are willing to become involved. All I am really doing is applying the stilling principles to liquids over 100C.

Citric acid is dirt cheap.

You can buy 1kg here for $13.20 deliverer to WA. I purchased 2 kgs from them with my last botanical order.

https://www.nutsaboutlife.com.au/produc ... 5927589121

Thanks MaKa. I just tore up my Woolworths Rewards Card :laughing-rolling:

No problems. Its all about keeping it simple. You could reverse distil vinegar to increase its strength. It would probably work relatively well but it would be a bit of effort and when citric acid is cheap, available and works well why would you go down that path :)

Arismac wrote:Thanks MaKa. I just tore up my Woolworths Rewards Card :laughing-rolling:

$10 a kilo at a brew shop just off Guilford rd ifn ya know someone heading up to the big smoke of Perth.cheers Hillzabilly ;-)

Great news, thanks mate ...

Just remember as well the more acidic you go the more copper you lose each clean. :-B