High Horses a Philosophical question

[Amberale]

Hi folks.
I have a philosophical question about our production techniques and attitudes.
I am not suggesting right or wrong ways to do things and I am definitely not trying to start a fight but asking if we should question some of our attitudes.

My questions are wrt Turbo yeasts and filtering.
Plastics are out, that is simply a health issue and a no brainer as is the removal of fores with the associated toxins.

My experience is that good recipes make good product and I generally use FFVW or WBAB to make neutral and would not go back to turbos.
However, I did do turbos off and on for 10 years before I found this site and found the filtered product very acceptable(yeah, yeah the plastic will probably get me but will have to stand in line with a few other things).

I am also involved in a couple of coffee groups and the $$$ and lengths that folks will go to to get 2 x 50ml cups of caffeine laden goodness per day is mind boggling and puts us to shame.
However, the vast majority of coffee consumed in the world is “instant” the next highest amount is via pre-roasted and pre-ground beans and the high end coffee snobs would rather cauterise their taste buds than have to consume this stuff.

So my question is, are we being spirit snobs?
Should we look down with such disdain upon Joe Bloggs and his T500 and turbo washes?
They are fast, convenient and give a large amount of (low grade) product but that is what the majority of people drink.
Liquor companies get away with adding feints to their product because people smother it with cola or other sweet syrups.
They blame the hangover on the amount they drank, not the quality and yet they back up again tomorrow/next week.
Surely encouraging someone who uses Turbos to make some cuts is better than alienating them totally.
I know the Tried and Proven recipes are cheap and easy but some people like the simplicity of “open packet A, add to packet B and mix”.
I know I have been surprised at the vehemence expressed towards HBSs and Turbos.
In my experience(no personal association at all) the two businesses I have dealt with over the last 30 years have been fair and reasonable.

Any how, as I said I’m not trying to start a fight, just raising the question.
Flame me if you must but what do you reckon?
Cheers AA

[RuddyCrazy]

Turbo yeasts were designed for the US bio fuel market and thus the higher yield, the HBS business's saw this as a bonanza where they could flog everything on the shelf to the public and it didn't take too long for this to happen.

It can be generally said

Turbo Yeast = A polished Turd
No matter how much you try and polish it the product is still a turd.

Just about everyone I have talked who used turbo yeast has now switched to bread yeast and have reported back they should of done this from the start.

Cheers Bryan

[hgwells]

I don’t think we are being spirit snobs.
I used turbo wash and it stank the house out, I had to carbon filter the spirit at the end of the process to get something half decent and it was expensive.

Came close to chucking it in as my aim was to produce something better than what I could buy.

Since changing it up and using recipes from the tried and proven section, I end up with a better quality wash (without chemicals) and a much better spirit product.

My view is that this site is about education and encouragement to improve your methods and thinking so you get a better outcome.

This is helping people who don’t know what they don’t know.

If you want to continue using turbos by all means do so but I don’t believe you will be taking full advantage of this site and it’s resources and maybe better suited to going to the Facebook distilling sites.

Just my two cents worth

[Wellsy]

Good question Amberale

I think the guts of the issue is this, what is written is never what would be said as we all shorten what we have to write to what we would say. There is no body language or tone in what is written either this can sometimes mean what is read is far harsher than what was intended. It is never about poo pooing someone’s effects it is always about suggesting an alternative. I have been lucky to get good advice from those on here, this has meant I have not had to drink anything aweful. Some people will have been through hell to get a drinkable product using turbo and hbs advice. So much of that advice is dependant on whether or not the HBS owner actually distill themselves. Much like getting a coffee from someone who does not drink it.
I believe the mods on here do a great job of keeping everything friendly, but your’s is a great reminder of how important the words we use are.

[hgwells]

I don’t think we are being spirit snobs.
I used turbo wash and it stank the house out, I had to carbon filter the spirit at the end of the process to get something half decent and it was expensive.

Came close to chucking it in as my aim was to produce something better than what I could buy.

Since changing it up and using recipes from the tried and proven section, I end up with a better quality wash (without chemicals) and a much better spirit product.

My view is that this site is about education and encouragement to improve your methods and thinking so you get a better outcome.

This is helping people who don’t know what they don’t know.

If you want to continue using turbos by all means do so but I don’t believe you will be taking full advantage of this site and it’s resources and maybe better suited to going to the Facebook distilling sites.

Just my two cents worth

And just to be clear I would never have a go at someone using a T500 as while they do have their limits they do produce a decent drop if use correctly.

I just struggle to understand why anyone would continue to use turbo washes when there are much better ways to achieve a quality outcome

[hgwells]

Good question Amberale

I think the guts of the issue is this, what is written is never what would be said as we all shorten what we have to write to what we would say. There is no body language or tone in what is written either this can sometimes mean what is read is far harsher than what was intended. It is never about poo pooing someone’s effects it is always about suggesting an alternative. I have been lucky to get good advice from those on here, this has meant I have not had to drink anything aweful. Some people will have been through hell to get a drinkable product using turbo and hbs advice. So much of that advice is dependant on whether or not the HBS owner actually distill themselves. Much like getting a coffee from someone who does not drink it.
I believe the mods on here do a great job of keeping everything friendly, but your’s is a great reminder of how important the words we use are.

Also agree with Wellsy, text is not the best forum to understand tone and intent.

Robust face to face discussion over a few drinks is far more conducive to building rapport and relationships.
So I apologise if any of my comments cause offence as that is not the intent :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[The Stig]

Yes I’m a snob, I won’t apologize for that .
When people come here and ask how to make things better, my response is ditch the turbos (as we’ve all seen)
The stills are ok and will get the job done and the turbo yeasts will always have a place , my 80 year old mum still uses them but whenever she asks me how to make a better product I give her a printout .
You can lead a horse to water but they don’t always drink

[Amberale]

Not a problem HG.

I’m down the shed playing with a new toy(Stig :handgestures-thumbupleft: ) and have almost no internet down here. I’m not hiding and nurturing my fragile self esteem. :))
I would not have raised the subject without a thick skin and well developed self esteem. :))

I am not suggesting that we recommend the use of turbos and as I said, I no longer use them.
On the other hand I think that the majority of hobby distillers probably do for the same reason that they buy their meat at Cowollies.

When we hit them with the fact that they are drinking “turds” (Hi Brian :greetings-waveyellow: :romance-kisscheek: ) and Fwits for doing it the majority are more likely to run back to their FB comrades.

This is indeed a robust forum but generally polite I just wonder how many more “Wellsies” we could have(or want :teasing-tease: )

To be fair, the is nothing wrong with being a snob.
I have been a proud coffeesnob for 30 years.
AA

[hgwells]

Not a problem HG.

I’m down the shed playing with a new toy(Stig :handgestures-thumbupleft: ) and have almost no internet down here. I’m not hiding and nurturing my fragile self esteem. :))
I would not have raised the subject without a thick skin and well developed self esteem. :))

I am not suggesting that we recommend the use of turbos and as I said, I no longer use them.
On the other hand I think that the majority of hobby distillers probably do for the same reason that they buy their meat at Cowollies.

When we hit them with the fact that they are drinking “turds” (Hi Brian :greetings-waveyellow: :romance-kisscheek: ) and Fwits for doing it the majority are more likely to run back to their FB comrades.

This is indeed a robust forum but generally polite I just wonder how many more “Wellsies” we could have(or want :teasing-tease: )


To be fair, the is nothing wrong with being a snob.
I have been a proud coffeesnob for 30 years.
AA

Speaking of being a coffee snob, I buy green beans, roast them myself, dose grind them and run them through a rocket espresso machine with a e61group head that pre infuses :smile:

DFB88E1A-A853-496A-9BD7-CD127C62E7CF.jpeg

[Amberale]

Very nice HG.
I am finishing off my first upgrade in 20 years.
I”m waiting another week or two before I finish plumbing it in.
I have set myself a bit of a task with a new machine/grinder/roaster all in one go.
I’m a novice roaster but the Nano is pretty idiot proof fortunately. :)

[hgwells]

Very nice HG.
I am finishing off my first upgrade in 20 years.
I”m waiting another week or two before I finish plumbing it in.
I have set myself a bit of a task with a new machine/grinder/roaster all in one go.
I’m a novice roaster but the Nano is pretty idiot proof fortunately. :)

That’s very nice! Love the timber group handles and knobs!

I have the Behmor roaster. Where do you get your green beans from (although maybe we should PM this discussion as we are way off topic :-D )

[Amberale]

:handgestures-thumbupleft:

[chipboy]

Speaking of being a coffee snob, I buy green beans, roast them myself, dose grind them and run them through a rocket espresso machine with a e61group head that pre infuses :smile:

Snap HG, same grinder, same bean process and a alex duetto to make coffee, delightful it always is.

Likewise to all and their distillate.

[hgwells]

Speaking of being a coffee snob, I buy green beans, roast them myself, dose grind them and run them through a rocket espresso machine with a e61group head that pre infuses :smile:

Snap HG, same grinder, same bean process and a alex duetto to make coffee, delightful it always is.

Likewise to all and their distillate.

:text-+1: Chipboy

[bluc]

I think its good to have a strict-ish
Set of guidlines that most industry profesionals follow for hobbyists.
Fly by nighters and snake oil salesmen give us a bad name and there are people that spend there whole lives waiting for people like us to mess up so they can point fingers and spew misinformation all over the tv about how dangerous home distilling is when in reality the reason for banning it is tax revenue and control over the production.

Dont get me wrong if done wrong this hobby will bite you in the ass...HARD!!

End rant

[The Stig]

:text-+1:
Where’s the like button , oh wait :laughing-rolling:

[bluc]

:laughing-rolling:

[Wellsy]

That’s a great idea Stig

I like button would be great, what about a poke button ???

In the immortal words of Daryl Kerrigan “ your an ideas man” :laughing-rolling:

[scythe]

I don't think it is a high horse as such.
Sometimes we can be a bit blunt with newer members that come here seeking increases to their turbo yield.
But I would say that is mainly because sometimes it takes a bit of bluntness to break through the local brew shop's hypnosis.

Most people who are sold turbo are after a quick thing, which distilling is when you consider the number of standard drinks produced, but turbo tries to take it to another level so that people who are coming from beer kit brewing can transition easily.
If you are going into a brew shop to grab a couple of beer mixes (cans), why wouldn't you like the idea of just add A to B, wait a few days, boil and your done?

What i have noticed is more all grain brewers becoming members recently which is the same mentality really, wanting to make the wash from "scratch", wanting to make something better.
People will always love turbo because they think it is all there is until they get curious and start googling, and its part of our hobby to try and change their mindset.

[Wellsy]

Just to throw another angle at the discussion, can anybody predict the future.

I have to wonder if the traditional all grain guys will be saying the same thing about Angel yeast , that we are having about turbo yeast.

Not saying they will or won’t, or if it is a good or bad thing. Just hypothesising. Well really just read that word in the dictionary last night and wanted to use it in a sentence.