New 15L oak cask question

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New 15L oak cask question

Postby Shinytom » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:32 pm

So I lashed out on an 15L oak cask I'm pretty sure it originally came from roll out the barrel,
Guy at the HBS said it was charred and would be suitable for aging spirits, so I made a bunch of AG wheated bourbon for its first run, planing on a single malt next then use it as a rum aging keg.
However after 2 months the spirit @65% doesn't seem to be taking on much colour/flavour?
I'm not a complete newbie I do realise the it will take time, I just figured the surface area to spirit ratio would be greater than a couple of oak dominos, maybe my cask is not up to the job? Maybe it is just for storing and conditioning already aged spirits? Any thoughts?
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Sam. » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:13 am

If it has been used previously then it will take up slower :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby wynnum1 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:56 am

2 months is not a long time .
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby EziTasting » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:02 am

wynnum1 wrote:2 months is not a long time .


:text-+1: not for a 15L barely anyway...
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby nuddy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:26 am

My virgin 25L charred barrel from ROTB coloured up to a nice dark caramel within a few weeks, after 4 months it was almost black tea when decanted out.

2nd barrel fill has been in there for 2.5 months and is much slower to colour. Taken on a tan to light brown colour now.

Can you poke a light into the bung hole to see if the inside has been charred?
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Shinytom » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:18 am

nuddy wrote:My virgin 25L charred barrel from ROTB coloured up to a nice dark caramel within a few weeks, after 4 months it was almost black tea when decanted out.

2nd barrel fill has been in there for 2.5 months and is much slower to colour. Taken on a tan to light brown colour now.

Can you poke a light into the bung hole to see if the inside has been charred?

Yeah it is a new barrel,and when I first filled it a had a look with a torch looked charred,
I thought it would colour at least as fast as a few oak dominoes, no harm in leaving it I
Suppose.
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby bluc » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:30 am

My 20l barrel after 4ish months the spirit is almost black to :think:
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Shinytom » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:06 pm

That's what I thought, small casks age rather quickly due to the increased surface area to spirit ratio, so maybe I have bought a expensive bar ornament?
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby A&O » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:44 pm

Is it American or French oak? I remember reading here somewhere American colours quicker than French, but I’ve no practical knowledge about that yet so not sure myself.
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Dig Brinker » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:19 am

A&O wrote:Is it American or French oak? I remember reading here somewhere American colours quicker than French, but I’ve no practical knowledge about that yet so not sure myself.




Other way round! French will go darker quicker.

Is the barrel full? Or partially??
Sounds like it just needs more time.
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Shinytom » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:30 pm

About 3/4 full, should be doing a spirit run in the next couple of weeks to top it off, the flavour is doing funny things too, like I taste heads and tails more than when I did the blend, but I understand that it does that? I think I'm just being a bit paranoid after all the hard work of mashing,stripping,spirit run and blending. I might give ROTB a call this arvo see what they say.
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Shinytom » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:21 pm

Soo if anyone is still interested I had a very interesting phone call with Roll out the barrel this arvo.
The lady I spoke to said that all of their 15L casks are charred and made from American white oak so all good there :handgestures-thumbupleft: then she went on to tell me that virgin oak weather charred or not will age a spirit a lot slower than previously used oak, she said I know it sounds backwards but that's the way it is, it apparently takes a while for the spirit to work its way through the char and into the wood, that is why all of their 20 and 25L spirit aging barrels are made of second hand barrel staves ( I didn't ask where from unfortunately)
And all of the smaller barrels, 5 10 and 15L's are made of virgin oak so that people can just fill them with already aged spirits without as much risk of over oaking,( more like something you just put on your bar)
She said what I was doing was fine and will work but just take longer, which I reckon will be better for my whiskey except it will take longer for me to enjoy.
What do you guys think? I have never heard of virgin oak taking longer to age but am inclined to believe them.
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby bluc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:11 pm

New to me to. Virgin dominoes colour and age faster than used ones.. My 10l barrel no longer colours the rum after about 40l passed through it but it still ages it good. I then color it up and finish it off with french dominoes..
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Sam. » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:32 pm

Sounds like bullshit to me.
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby EziTasting » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:24 pm

Sam. wrote:Sounds like bullshit to me.


:laughing-rolling: Mr. Diplomatic! :laughing-rolling: funny, tho!

But I must admit, everything I’ve ever read says the other way around! The older, the longer.
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Sam. » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:55 pm

EziTasting wrote:
Sam. wrote:Sounds like bullshit to me.


:laughing-rolling: Mr. Diplomatic! :laughing-rolling: funny, tho!

But I must admit, everything I’ve ever read says the other way around! The older, the longer.


I do try, sometimes...

If you soak anything new in a solvent, then you do it again and again, it will leech less each time.

Why would oak be an different?
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby bluc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:00 pm

:text-+1: :text-lol:
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Shinytom » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:43 pm

Ok, so I think we are missing the point a little here, she didn't say Virgin oak barrels age less than used barrels only they are a bit slower to get started than NEW barrels made from used staves, and that seems to ring true because mine is sure going slow but the other guys with 20 and 25L barrels say theirs went quickly ( she did say that ALL the larger barrels from ROTB are made from used staves) so anyone with a smaller barrel from those guys have a similar experience?
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby EziTasting » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:50 pm

Shinytom wrote:Ok, so I think we are missing the point a little here, she didn't say Virgin oak barrels age less than used barrels only they are a bit slower to get started than NEW barrels made from used staves, and that seems to ring true because mine is sure going slow but the other guys with 20 and 25L barrels say theirs went quickly ( she did say that ALL the larger barrels from ROTB are made from used staves) so anyone with a smaller barrel from those guys have a similar experience?



What we are suggesting, some stronger than others, is that virgin oak barrels, no matter what size, in our experience, colours/flavours your drink faster than used oak. Irrelevant if its dominoes or barrels.

Which seems to directly contradict the subject of your original post above.

Additional info: Larger Barrels take longer than smaller barrels

I know that people are sharing a load of info and that, initial y one isn't quite able to grasp it all at once (well, I did') so don't be discouraged! Keep it up and things will become easier...
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Re: New 15L oak cask question

Postby Sam. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:26 pm

Take up of colour is no indication of flavour. A new barrel will rip a heap of tannins early compared to a used barrel
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