MacStill wrote:the Doctor wrote:Firstly French oak is my preference every time so the barrel sounds good, Pinot is fine, the tartrates left in the wood will dissolve and add a modicum of complexity. I am currently buying used ( one use) french oak Barriques ( 226 litters ) for $114 per barrel at the moment, or $185 per barrique if scrapped and re-fired. But the price is a bit seasonal and relates to demand and supply. A new first class barrique is $1650 at the current exchange rate. What your end product will taste like is determined by the base spirit as much as the oak, so I concur with those who suggest barley based whiskey if you are not wanting a bourben style.
Doc
That's the beauty of this hobby Doc, even though we agree on most things our oak preferences are vastly opposed, I'm a big fan of heavily toasted American oak for my styles of drinks :D
But then I'm far from what you'd call a whisky maker, and with the knowledge you so willingly share I just know I'll be be better off in the long run.... My Single malt you advised me about is really starting to get some fantastic notes too it, even if it's only a few months old and tasted like arse in the beginning.
So glad you're here to share :D
Oak choice is such a personal thing ...and that is good, as it gives us the rich diversity we find in spirits. I am always amazed that you can go into a whiskey bar and sample many different whiskeys and no two are exactly the same. I used to like heavily toasted AO when I was making a more American whiskey style, but in those days i was drinking whiskey with mixers, the heavy toasted AO really helped the flavour of the whiskey to cut through the mixer... But with the advancing years and diabetes, I now drink all my whiskey neat or with a splash of water... with a sipping whiskey I like the subtlety of FO. The vanillin is there, I get nice caramel and I find that the smokiness is more from the peat than the char.I guess i have become a bit boring in my later years. but I am liking the spirits I am getting now. Also buying good french oak barrels which have only had one use is easier than sourcing AO, There are some very good barrels available every season. If you want them re - scraped and refired I can buy them for just $185.
Lately we have been buying "one use" white wine barrels which we do not even have cleaned...we tyhen put about 80 liters of madeira which we make from excess chardonnay we put this into the barrel and pressurise tyhe barrel with an air line threaded through a silicone barrel bung...The ain being to maintain a slightly higher atmospheric pressure within the barrel than without ( in much the same way that CCA treated timber is done...) we regularly rotate the barrel and leave for a couple of months. The pressure helps to achieve quick take up of the madeira by the oak as the wine does not just sink in but is drawn into the pores of the oak by the pressure differential and porosity of the timber.
Why Madiera ?.... well one of the advantages of being a wine maker is being able to make wines for no other purpose than to age the oak, Madeira imparts a jam / orange marmalade flavour which I love, it is really unique.
Why white wine barrels ?.... Whites tend to spend less time in the barrel than reds. So the once use barrels are often quite new, the oak still has many of the characteristics of a new barrel. If we want to add more "new oak" characteristics and punch up the vanillin we can use Nadalie planks or Suber Laffort dominoes as we micro oxygenate / aerate for the last 4 months before bottling.
There is only one thing more rewarding than the flavour that good oak brings to a fine whiskey...that is the flavour of good oak and PATIENCE bring.
Cheers
Doc