The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby P3T3rPan » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:03 pm

I say it again, like a stuck record
Lead. ITS A FUCKEN ACCUMULATIVE POISON
It builds up inside you. Little by little.
Just like DDT and mercury and strontium 90
Over here there was a tv campaign to encourage people to discard the first few mls of water from their tap for drinking because Some places in the world only pay lip service to expected standards of lead level in tapware
So you can quote me all the New Legislation you like
(I am told that you can drink a little foreshots as well but I don't see many trying it)

And I am a plumber so somewhat informed (latin = plumbum = worker of lead)
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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby garouda » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:36 pm

P3T3rPan wrote:I say it again, like a stuck record
Lead. ITS A FUCKEN ACCUMULATIVE POISON
It builds up inside you. Little by little.
Just like DDT and mercury and strontium 90
Over here there was a tv campaign to encourage people to discard the first few mls of water from their tap for drinking because Some places in the world only pay lip service to expected standards of lead level in tapware
So you can quote me all the New Legislation you like
(I am told that you can drink a little foreshots as well but I don't see many trying it)

And I am a plumber so somewhat informed (latin = plumbum = worker of lead)


Sorry to rekindle the debate. In the past, the water inlet in each house in my country was made of lead (plomb in French, from Latin Plumbum, plumber= Plumbarius), indeed, that's the reason why craftmen are still called plumbers nowadays. This was "acceptable" because water was hard and a calcium carbonate shield quicly isolated the lead. However, this was 100% lead.
Now pure copper TP2 whose main composition is Cu and Ag (total >=99.85%), still has Pb in it but less than 0.005%.
Someone above didn't want to go into calculations and rejected any lead as a matter of principle, so also copper???
I do not want to argue with any one, but my problem is the following; I could hardly find copper fittings around my place (needed mainly for my parrot, only one 28.6x1.0mm 45 Degree Elbow goes to the vapour line). On the other hand, pipes are made of 100% copper, the column itself being SS. So I looked on Ebay and found a supplier... In China... But when the parts arrived, it was obvious they were made of red brass, not pure copper.
"It should also be understood that all brass “lead-free” parts may still contain trace amounts of lead, but no more than the 0.25% mandated by the law, so the parts should be labeled clearly to avoid confusion." from https://www.directmaterial.com/lead-free-brass-what-is-it-why-buy-it.
According to Wikipedia, red brass is also an alternative name for copper alloy C23000, which is composed of 14–16% zinc, a minimum 0.05% iron and minimum 0.07% lead content, and the remainder copper. Pb obviously remaining below the 0.25% limit. I'm attaching pictures I sent to the supplier in order to complain about their fake product description, no news so far...
Does someone have ever tried that kind of "fake" copper (red brass)? :text-thankyoublue:
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Last edited by garouda on Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby Sam. » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:46 pm

One of the main points here is when you run water through something it doesn’t leech as much as putting a solvent (alcohol) through it :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby garouda » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:48 pm

Sam. wrote:One of the main points here is when you run water through something it doesn’t leech as much as putting a solvent (alcohol) through it :handgestures-thumbupleft:


Thanks, but this wasn't my question.
I asked whether someone got some experience with those red brass fittings made in China.
How to identify red brass at first sight, the colour is brighter, shiny. Hit a reducer, it rings like a bell while copper will give a round, melower sound.
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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby Sam. » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:28 pm

garouda wrote:
Sam. wrote:One of the main points here is when you run water through something it doesn’t leech as much as putting a solvent (alcohol) through it :handgestures-thumbupleft:


Thanks, but this wasn't my question.
I asked whether someone got some experience with those red brass fittings made in China.
How to identify red brass at first sight, the colour is brighter, shiny. Hit a reducer, it rings like a bell while copper will give a round, melower sound.


No idea mate but best bet would be not to buy cheap shit brass from China :teasing-tease:
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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby garouda » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:21 pm

Sam. wrote:No idea mate but best bet would be not to buy cheap shit brass from China :teasing-tease:

Thanks Sam, I wish I could from here in the middle of nowhere :crying-yellow:
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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby Sam. » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:28 pm

garouda wrote:
Sam. wrote:No idea mate but best bet would be not to buy cheap shit brass from China :teasing-tease:

Thanks Sam, I wish I could from here in the middle of nowhere :crying-yellow:


The best bet is if you have to use it tin the inside with lead free solder so you have a barrier from the brass :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby coffe addict » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:29 am

Hi mate, as I'm sure you've worked out some people are very passionate about lead... For good reason.
We are quite lucky with suppliers in Australia and its easy and convenient to source copper or stainless and avoid brass.

I would like to suggest also "pickling brass" before tinning it with lead free solder.
The pickling process draws the surface lead out of the brass. This should lower the amount of exposure.
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Re: Black discolouration, rum

Postby OzDistilling » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:36 am

lets look at the facts.
water is water.
ethanol is a solvent that leaches chemicals
0.015g of lead in brass in a water supply system is much safer than in a high % alcohol solution.
alcohol strips while water doesnt.
any lead is bad lead.
stay lead free
those brass taps are made for water systems not stills and alcohol storage devices ;-)


I agree that any form of lead is bad, but, stating that lead is safer in water than ethanol, or that ethanol 'strips' lead more, is incorrect.

Metallic lead is insoluble in Water and Ethanol.Its the oxides/salts of lead that are soluble.

The various oxides/salts of lead (Lead Oxide, Lead Acetate, Lead Chloride etc) are mostly very soluble in water, and generally soluble in ethanol, but usually to a lesser degree, it depends on the salt. Some lead salts (ie Lead Acetate) are very soluble in glycerine, and as glycerine is naturally produced during fermentation, stands to transport Lead Acetate through a still.

Lead does not leach from brass per se'. As the surface exposed lead oxidises, it can be washed away, but it goes no deeper generally. So its the lead that is surface exposed that is the concern, not all the lead in the brass.

A simple soak in Hydrogen Peroxide will normally strip all surface lead from brass.

Industry tests show that the water used for the wash and spirit dilution, octen contain higher levels of lead than a spirit that has been in contact with brass.

Whilst I agree with the overall argument that lead is bad, the lead in brass contributes a very small percentage to the overall problem. The lead in your feedwater, lead/tin solders, the cadmium in silver solders, the plasticisers in PVC and the potential presence of carbamates in your wash (due to poor/wrong yeast nutrition) present a far greater health risk.
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Re: The never ending discussion of lead content of brass

Postby wynnum1 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:54 am

What about lead in copper if they recycle old copper pipe then there is going to be a small quantity of solder which being old copper is going to contain lead. and a lot of manufacturing is from China
Brass does not need to have lead so not all brass has lead.
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