R.S.P.C.Y, (TPW smells like sewage.)

[Todd]

Last night I put on a batch of TPW. I woke up and found it made the house smell like sewage. Fortunately, I was the first up, and was able to throw it outside and turn on the exhaust fans before anyone else noticed.

Previous tpws smelt sweet and sour, and generally pleasant, but the odour of this batch is awful. All the ingredients are either from the very same packets as previous batches, or using the same brands products, so I figure I must have stressed the yeast.

I made this past my bedtime, so I was motivated to quicken the process.
Normally I dissolve the sugar in warm water. Add more cool water to reach ~30C, then dump dry yeast on top.
This time I just threw the sugar into cool room temp water and gave it a shake, but I started the yeast in a cup of warm water, before adding to the rest of the cool ingredients.

Maybe the yeast didn’t like the sudden changes in temperature, speculating.

[The Stig]

No idea what youve done but never had it happen when i was trying TPW.
But, what is R.S.P.C.Y ??

[Todd]

I was trying to be funny,
Instead of RSPCA (Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals)
RSPCY with Y for yeast....

[The Stig]

x_x :teasing-tease: :laughing-rolling:

[howard]

why speculate, just do what you 'normally' do. :smile:
my guess is that you have a shitload of undissolved sugar in a un-aerated wash and some very unhappy yeast.

[Todd]

my guess is that you have a shitload of undissolved sugar in a un-aerated wash and some very unhappy yeast.

Same sugar as previous batches, but you might be onto something with aeration. Its in two drums so I'll try blowing some air through one and see if that makes any difference.

[howard]

my guess is that you have a shitload of undissolved sugar in a un-aerated wash and some very unhappy yeast.

Same sugar as previous batches, but you might be onto something with aeration. Its in two drums so I'll try blowing some air through one and see if that makes any difference.

apparently....
the first part of fermentation is the aerobic, were the yeast concentrate on multiplying, whilst feeding on oxygen and ignoring the sugar.
when they have finished the oxygen the 2nd phase starts, the multitude of healthy and hungry yeast turn their attention to sugar (anaerobic fermentation) and shit alcohol.
3rd phase is :obscene-drinkingdrunk:

[The Stig]

We just added these stainless aeration stones to the store . Add some silicone tube and your on your way
https://5stardistilling.com/product/0-5 ... tone-barb/

[Todd]

3rd phase is :obscene-drinkingdrunk:

:))

I went back to it after work and stuck my nose in. It was night and day, the horrible sulphur odour wasn't detectable and it had the familiar sweet & tart aroma.
Maybe in previous batches I missed that phase, or automatically blamed the dog....

We just added these stainless aeration stones to the store .

Do the aeration stones need a special pump? I have one (from else where) which I tested out with PVC tube and regular aquarium air pump. Within about a minute it had clogged and was no longer usable.

[The Stig]

I wouldn’t think they need anything more than a descent aquarium air pump but I haven’t had a chance to try one yet

[Todd]

Maybe I just had a dodgy one.

[Todd]

Happy to report that this seamed fine after the initial smelly phase and has now slowly stopped bubbling.

I put a second batch on to ferment last night similar to the smelly one, but last night's doesn't seem to have suffered the same odor issues the next morning.
Differences were
I gave it a really good shake to airrate the water.
I didn't start the yeast, I just sprinkled it on top of the other room temp ingredients.
And instead of citric acid, I added about a litre of previous batch. The last batch dropped ph down to 2.8 which made me hesitate to add acid to this one. Adding some of the previous batch brought the pH of the new batch to 5.

[howard]

Happy to report that this seamed fine after the initial smelly phase and has now slowly stopped bubbling.

I put a second batch on to ferment last night similar to the smelly one, but last night's doesn't seem to have suffered the same odor issues the next morning.
Differences were
I gave it a really good shake to airrate the water.
I didn't start the yeast, I just sprinkled it on top of the other room temp ingredients.
And instead of citric acid, I added about a litre of previous batch. The last batch dropped ph down to 2.8 which made me hesitate to add acid to this one. Adding some of the previous batch brought the pH of the new batch to 5.

all my sugar washes, and most others, get a good going over with a paint stirrer (Trojan 100mm Paint Drill Mixer) from the big green shed.
some packet yeasts i sprinkle on, lowans bakers yeast i always start in about 400ml of 30-35°c water, just stir it in well and wait for it to start climbing out.
is your water supply a constant PH and do you filter it?
mine is nearly always 7.8 - 8.0, which i bring down to 5.8 - 6.0 using mckenzies citric acid (woolies) in weighed amounts.
it's best to adjust your own waters PH, rather than follow a recipes advice on the amount of citric acid.

[Todd]

I'll have to check but I think my town water was in the 7's.

Agreed, you need to adjust ingredients to suit. I have been aiming to get the wash I'm making to ph 5's with citric acid, or in this case, some previous wash before adding yeast.

what is the reason for starting the yeast before adding to a wash. It makes sense if your making bread, but I don't understand the difference between adding yeast to warm water then adding that to your warm wash, vs just adding to a warm wash?

[howard]

I'll have to check but I think my town water was in the 7's.

Agreed, you need to adjust ingredients to suit. I have been aiming to get the wash I'm making to ph 5's with citric acid, or in this case, some previous wash before adding yeast.

what is the reason for starting the yeast before adding to a wash. It makes sense if your making bread, but I don't understand the difference between adding yeast to warm water then adding that to your warm wash, vs just adding to a warm wash?

depends what you read and what works for you.
some say that dry yeast would not like being chucked into a sugar enviroment, but it seems to work both ways.
some packaged yeast like lallemand tell you to sprinkle on top of the wort, but that particular yeast (i'm told) may have some sort of nutrient reserves built in.
lallemand say rehydration is recommended but not neccesary, but rehydration 'reduces osmotic stress and enhances a homogenous dispersion'. :roll:
the added bonus for rehydration is that i know the yeasties are alive & kicking. :smile:

[Todd]

Thanks Howard, the 'reduces osmotic stress' point makes sense.

As for ph, my tap water measured 7.2. I've also cleaned up some egg shells and thrown them in the fermenter. Current batch is 3.2, I'll check again in a couple days.

Any one ever tried snail shells? I thought about it for a moment ...

[Todd]

Summary: Its raw sugar.

I thought I figured this out: I found a pot plant where water and dirt had pooled on the plate at the bottom and gone rancid smelling similar.

That was until I did it again...

Last night I put on some tsffv and there is definitely rotten / sewage / sulphur odour coming off it as I type.

However this time I did three batches, tsffv scaled to 10l
10l water
20g lowans bakers yeast, added to water + pinch sugar about a hour before pitching
small pinch epsom salt
1/2 tsp dap
multivitamin
100g wheat bran

Batch 1
raw sugar straight from the packet

Batch 2
sugar + tsp citric acid simmered for 20 minutes

Batch3
sugar + tsp citric acid through a cycle in the rice cooker

I was trying to see if using the rice cooker is an easier option. I don't know if it will affect the fermentation but I have ruled it out just based on the initial processing. 1.8kg sugar doesn't all fit in one batch, heating takes a very long time, and it ends up being much much slower and more stuffing around compared to using a pot on the stove top.

This morning all batches are producing gas. There wasn't an initial large flourish of activity like I've seen in the past, on maybe it was quick and I missed it.
The two cooked sugar batches don’t smell, while the raw sugar does. This is consistent with using raw sugar last time, even with a different recipe, and I think I used CSR brand sugar.

The odour producing phase didn't last long last time, hopefully its also quick this time.

I was planning to do some measurements in the coming days comparing the three batches, but knocked over my hydrometer when checking if it was the plants smelling again. Cranky.