Inverting

[crow]

hi just what is inverting and what does it mean , here ppl talking about inverting sugar all the time got no idea what they are talking about

[MR-E]

hi just what is inverting and what does it mean , here ppl talking about inverting sugar all the time got no idea what they are talking about

:text-imwithstupid: , thanks for breaking the ice on that one. :laughing-rolling:

[home_brewer]

Not quite a 100% on this but i tink its like making a simple syrup but boiling it for a bit longer so it stops the sugar re crystalising.
used alot in big belgin beers

[MR-E]

A mixture of equal parts of glucose and fructose resulting from the hydrolysis of sucrose. It is found naturally in fruits and honey and produced artificially for use in the food industry.

The mixture of glucose and fructose produced by hydrolysis of sucrose, 1.3 times sweeter than sucrose. So called because the optical activity is reversed in the process. It is important in the manufacture of sugar confectionery, and especially boiled sweets, since the presence of 10-15% invert sugar prevents the crystallization of sucrose.

Invert sugar is created by combining a sugar syrup with a small amount of acid (such as cream of tartar or lemon juice) and heating. This inverts, or breaks down, the sucrose into its two components, glucose and fructose, thereby reducing the size of the sugar crystals. Because of its fine crystal structure, invert sugar produces a smoother product and is used in making candies such as fondant, and some syrups. The process of making jams and jellies automatically produces invert sugar by combining the natural acid in the fruit with granulated sugar and heating the mixture. Invert sugar can usually be found in jars in cake-decorating supply shops.

Inverted or invert[1] sugar syrup is a mixture of glucose and fructose; it is obtained by splitting sucrose into these two components. Compared with its precursor, sucrose, inverted sugar is sweeter and its products tend to remain more moist and are less prone to crystallisation. Inverted sugar is therefore valued by bakers, who refer to the syrup as trimoline or invert syrup.[2]

In technical terms, sucrose is a disaccharide, which means that it is a molecule derived from two simple sugars (monosaccharides). In the case of sucrose, these monosaccharide building blocks are fructose and glucose. The splitting of sucrose is a hydrolysis reaction. The hydrolysis can be induced simply by heating an aqueous solution of sucrose, but more commonly, catalysts are added to accelerate the conversion. The biological catalysts that are added are called sucrases (in animals) and invertases (in plants). Sucrases and invertases are types of glycoside hydrolase enzymes. Acid, such as lemon juice or cream of tartar, also accelerates the conversion of sucrose to invert.
Contents

Chemical reaction of the inversion

The term 'inverted' is derived from the method of measuring the concentration of sugar syrup using a polarimeter. Plane polarized light, when passed through a sample of pure sucrose solution, is rotated to the right (optical rotation). As the solution is converted to a mixture of sucrose, fructose and glucose, the amount of rotation is reduced until (in a fully converted solution) the direction of rotation has changed (inverted) from right to left.

C12H22O11 (sucrose, Specific rotation = +66.5°) + H2O (water, no rotation) → C6H12O6 (glucose, Specific rotation = +52.7°) + C6H12O6 (fructose, Specific rotation = −92°)
net: +66.5° converts to −39°

Hydrolysis is a chemical reaction in which a molecule breaks down by the addition of water. Hydrolysis of sucrose yields glucose and fructose about 85%, the reaction temperature can be maintained at 50–60 °C (122–140 °F).
Inverting sugar

Inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding roughly one gram of citric acid or ascorbic acid per kilogram of sugar. Cream of tartar (one gram per kilogram) or fresh lemon juice (10 milliliters per kilogram) may also be used.

The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, and will convert enough of the sucrose to effectively prevent crystallization, without giving a noticeably sour taste. Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar.

All inverted sugar syrups are created from hydrolyzing sucrose to glucose (dextrose) and fructose by heating a sucrose solution, then relying on time alone, with the catalytic properties of an acid or enzymes used to speed the reaction. Commercially prepared acid catalysed solutions are neutralized when the desired level of inversion is reached.

All constituent sugars (sucrose, glucose and fructose) support fermentation, so invert sugar solutions may be fermented as readily as sucrose solutions.

Hope this helps :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[emptyglass]

Yeah, wot he said.

I couldn't tell you what MrE has, but I can tell you; when you prepare your sugar for your next mash, melt the sugar and water in your boiler, keep it boiling for 1/2 hour and you have invert syrup (correct me on terminology here, MrE).
You might get your wash up a point or three on the alcohol content, but it will change the taste.
I have tried it, but for the dicking around, it didn't help. Made my sour mash taste sweeter. Not what I want. I can't speak for how it would go in rum. And if you are using backset, you have to manage that differently. I don't think sugar and backset inverts properly, but could be wrong.

MrE, does it make a difference if the sugar is white graded or raw?

[MR-E]

Yeah, wot he said.

I couldn't tell you what MrE has, but I can tell you; when you prepare your sugar for your next mash, melt the sugar and water in your boiler, keep it boiling for 1/2 hour and you have invert syrup (correct me on terminology here, MrE).
You might get your wash up a point or three on the alcohol content, but it will change the taste.
I have tried it, but for the dicking around, it didn't help. Made my sour mash taste sweeter. Not what I want. I can't speak for how it would go in rum. And if you are using backset, you have to manage that differently. I don't think sugar and backset inverts properly, but could be wrong.

MrE, does it make a difference if the sugar is white graded or raw?

Honestly I don't know, inversion should be the same, taste might be different though, depending on your wash type.
I've never done it myself, didn't see the need for what I do.
I could be getting some inversion by accident anyway, I always dump my sugar in with boiling water & citric acid first
whether its rum or tpw.
I use white sugar for tpw & raw for rum.

Cheers

[emptyglass]

Making UJ, I always melt my sugar in hot dunder, might be some default inverting going on, I just thought the Ph of the dunder would affect it in the scientific sense.
I don't cook it anymore than the residual heat provides for, so no intentional inverting going on here.
There is a good bit of info out there on the recipie I'm using, I should have a dig and see if I can turn up anything.

[R-sole]

Yeah, wot he said.

I couldn't tell you what MrE has, but I can tell you; when you prepare your sugar for your next mash, melt the sugar and water in your boiler, keep it boiling for 1/2 hour and you have invert syrup (correct me on terminology here, MrE).
You might get your wash up a point or three on the alcohol content, but it will change the taste.
I have tried it, but for the dicking around, it didn't help. Made my sour mash taste sweeter. Not what I want. I can't speak for how it would go in rum. And if you are using backset, you have to manage that differently. I don't think sugar and backset inverts properly, but could be wrong.

MrE, does it make a difference if the sugar is white graded or raw?

Sugar won't invert in the absence of an acid.

Folks yeast eat simple sugars, they can't eat sucrose. They will however convert sucrose to simple sugars of their own accord. It's just an extra step is all.
I've heard arguments on both sides as to whether you get a quicker, cleaner or healthier wash one way or another but i've never been convinced it made a difference.

Inverting sugar (or using dextrose) means that there are simple sugars available for the yeast to eat without converting them themselves. that's all. If it's worth the extra energy spent by you and your stove to save the yeast doing it for free is up to you to decide.

[BackyardBrewer]

I love a Belgian Ale, I brew my own and I've inverted the sugar, I've tried Belgian candy sugar and I've tried straight up white sugar late in the ferment. You would be hard pushed to pick them and inverting and then dissolving/adding sugar to a brew late in the fermentation is a pain in the nutz and not worth the efforts.

Home brewers love arguing about this, but I'm with this guy: http://www.fermentarium.com/homebrewing ... brew-beer/

[bt1]

Have of past few years allways inverted for a couple of reasons.

Firstly i need some hot content especially in winter to get to yeast pitching temp

mainly cos it takes off like a bloody rocket. It's as fast as a dex if not closer to a turbo start depending on yeast. say 30 mins all up and your belting.

I' never got that with plain disolved sugar.

bt1

[bigwheel]

Yeah, wot he said.

I couldn't tell you what MrE has, but I can tell you; when you prepare your sugar for your next mash, melt the sugar and water in your boiler, keep it boiling for 1/2 hour and you have invert syrup (correct me on terminology here, MrE).
You might get your wash up a point or three on the alcohol content, but it will change the taste.
I have tried it, but for the dicking around, it didn't help. Made my sour mash taste sweeter. Not what I want. I can't speak for how it would go in rum. And if you are using backset, you have to manage that differently. I don't think sugar and backset inverts properly, but could be wrong.

MrE, does it make a difference if the sugar is white graded or raw?

Sugar won't invert in the absence of an acid.

Folks yeast eat simple sugars, they can't eat sucrose. They will however convert sucrose to simple sugars of their own accord. It's just an extra step is all.
I've heard arguments on both sides as to whether you get a quicker, cleaner or healthier wash one way or another but i've never been convinced it made a difference.

Inverting sugar (or using dextrose) means that there are simple sugars available for the yeast to eat without converting them themselves. that's all. If it's worth the extra energy spent by you and your stove to save the yeast doing it for free is up to you to decide.

Great thread and info. Am forced to agree with the above assessment. In my brief exposure to the home extraction hobby...have added sugar in just about all available formats. Have not noted a dimes worth of difference in the various strategies as pertains to the quality of the finished product. Will testify boiling it in dunder will stink up your crib. Only tried that once. Got some serious nagging on that deal :shock:

[Mark]

I've found fermentation is faster on inverted white sugar (broken to glucose and frutose) with more robust Co2 bubbling in weetbix wash. Apparently the yeast has to split the sugar to the two simpler sugars for O2 in anerobic solution, and so by inverting (by simmering dissolved sugar and indicated by a straw coloured solution) expedites fermentation. I used lime or lemon juice to lower pH. On turbos I noticed no difference.