Mash not required

all about mashing and fermenting grains

Re: Mash not required

Postby RuddyCrazy » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:47 pm

Ok just had to try and think this 200 litre recipe of ol' George's out.

So for a 200 litre ferment where the grain ratio is 65/30/5

3 off 20 kg bags of cracked corn

1 off 20kg bag of barley

5kg's of rye so buy a 20kg bag of rye and have enough left for 3 more runs :laughing-rolling:

This is going on the 2-3 litres per kg of grain and worked out on whole sacks rather than going thru the pain of measuring every kilo :laughing-rolling:

So using this bulk recipe who much Angel yeast would be needed or is simply a case of throwing a full 500g block in there :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

Cheers Bryan
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Re: Mash not required

Postby scythe » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:18 pm

I would think that the yeast would multiply well enough, but the enzyme might be more of an issue, that would be a fixed quantity wouldn't it?
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:45 pm

I am of the opinion of stick to recomended yeast to grain ratio(for enzyme) and stress the yeast side with water/grain ratio.
I am testing this theory with a 2.5l water to 1kg grain ratio. Recomended 3 to 1. But with recomended 50g per 10kg grain yeast ratio..
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Wellsy » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:20 pm

I will be sticking with a tried and tested one first time.
There is no way I want to have to explain to the little woman why I had to chuck everything out lol.
Besides if it turns out as good as the other recipes here it will be perfect to build from
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Re: Mash not required

Postby dans.brew » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:53 pm

Ran my oat wash this weekend and the final yield from 20kg of oats was 2.5l @ 100% which is a bit disappointing. :confusion-seeingstars:
Im thinkin my low yeast pitching rate (my bugger up) may of hurt even though i added more.
Oats is also very husky and even though i sparged them with my eskytun i dont think i got all the alcohol out.
When playing with the spent oats the next morn i could still smell alcohol in them.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:51 pm

Ok so halve that 10kg grain dilute to 65% for ageing(i realise theres no such think as 100% alcohol and your just trying to work out total volume alcohol in the grain mash)
Gives you 1.923l. thats only 77ml shy of my average 2L@ 65%per 10kg grain.
So double that and Have you been doing better then 4L at 65% from 20kg grain?

I got that funny taste again in my burbon dont know if its the taste of the rye or flavour from the container I used for fv. I thought first one was from scorched element but no sign of scorch this time round :think:

Seems like the idea of sparging the fermented grain bed to remove alcohol works perhaps recirc for 15mins or so as well to clarify the wort like you would with beer making.
I remember one partticular mash i let it recirc 8ish hrs and wort was like water. Dont have to go to that extreme but may get it clearer and avoid a scorch.
How much extra water did you use to sparge with dan?
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:05 pm

Trying to get a thicker mash higher gravity wort happening. So i tried a water- grain ratio of 2.5-1. 15kg grain 40l water. but I didnt mill the grain. And lost 20% volume So will try another the same but with milled grain. If that is a success and scales up equally to 50% more spirit compared to my usuall 10kg grain 40l water, out of same 40L boiler charge. I will then swap to recirc(lautering) and sparging. As well. Post back in couple weeks.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:15 pm

Ok confused myself did you mean 2.5l 100% of the alcohol
2.5l 100abv
2.5l 100% of volume in the jar you kept after cuts if so was that at 65%
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Re: Mash not required

Postby dans.brew » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:20 am

bluc wrote:Ok confused myself did you mean 2.5l 100% of the alcohol
2.5l 100abv
2.5l 100% of volume in the jar you kept after cuts if so was that at 65%

2.5l was the total collected, i just converted it to 100% equivalent.
It works out to be 3.85l at 45%
I think the sparging will work just need to do it better. Recirc would help i would think. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:10 pm

Good day for South Africa. I ordered Angel yeast from 'unwelcome advertiser', exactly like the one in your pictures. Problem is that the first pack of 100g I received doesn't have the usual print on it, one side is transparent and one side has a label. Do you think I received the right yeast? And what is the correct dosage? what is 0.2 to 0.6% of stuff? What do they refer to?
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:11 pm

And on the other side
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Re: Mash not required

Postby mattyb » Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:45 am

The ingredients look the same. Only one way to find out for sure. Put it with some grain and see what happens
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Re: Mash not required

Postby RC Al » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:36 pm

It looks right

I daresay they are repackaging them in the small size as a cheap sampler for ppl and no doubt making a few extra sheckles out of it - havent found any other packs for it other than the std 500g silver ones
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:57 pm

Thanks guys, I will give it a try. I wanted to buy 1 kg but the seller had only 1x100g with free shipping. i ordered separately 2 x 100g packs and then contacted the seller and ordered 800 g with free shipping. A lot of info here on the Angel yeast topic. Can you advice me what I should go with? I want to do the first run on my bubbler.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:15 pm

bluc wrote:just mixed up gen 2 of corn barley rye 70%/20%/10%. Used 20% backset ph of 3.78 with grain and backset added. Maybe bit low we will see what it does by volume after I run it. Back in couple weeks :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Hi Bluc,
I imagine you used fresh Angel Yeast again on this one, 50g per 10kg of grain. The backset should have yeast but you need enzyme for the new grain.
How did it go? What is the best tasting combination you obtained with the Angel yeast?
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:05 pm

I have looking for rye grains but no luck. Can I use rye flour instead?
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:08 pm

RC Al wrote:It looks right

I daresay they are repackaging them in the small size as a cheap sampler for ppl and no doubt making a few extra sheckles out of it - havent found any other packs for it other than the std 500g silver ones

The seller confirmed he repacked 100g packs from a 500g one.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby EziTasting » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:04 am

virge wrote:I have looking for rye grains but no luck. Can I use rye flour instead?


This would work. Just make sure you stir vigorously so it doesn’t form ‘balls’ (inside dry - outside wet clumping together)...
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:34 am

Hey virge yea fresh yeast and grainbed each gen tied together with backset. Have only done the 70/20/10 ratio thinking it maybe a bit heavy on the rye it has a strong flavour..
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:36 pm

Thanks Bluc and EziTasting.
Can somebody with experience in Angel Yeast tell me how much wash do you get from a ferment? I need new fermenters for the 50l keg boiler and I guess I can load only 40L in the boiler and I would like to get at least 40L wash or multiples of it. I am tempted to buy a 100l drum or 2x50l.
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