Mash not required

all about mashing and fermenting grains

Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:48 am

The pdf instructions say
"100kg grain 250-300kg water .5-.8kg yeast."

I just divided everything by 10
10kg grain 25-30l water 50-80g yeast.
I originally used 40l water to see if effeciency increased.
I would not go below 50g yeast on 10kg grain. The enzyme in grain will do bugger all unless up round 63c. No idea what 63c would do to angel yeast enzyme. But if you want to mash using heat why bother with angel yeast :think:
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:05 pm

Thanks bluc. I don't want to mash. Since I have ready 7kg cracked corn, 2kg milled malted barley and 1kg milled malted rye, I thought it might be possible to save some yeast which is difficult to get in my part of the world. I intend to use hot water at 70 degrees from the geyser. I can add the malted grain when it reaches 63c but I will not use heat to keep it at 63c until the enzymes do the conversion. I will use 50g of yest then and 40l of water, the fermenter is a 50l drum.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:29 pm

I have just been following recommendations give it a go see how low you can go before effeciency slumps :handgestures-thumbupleft: If you use to little will just mean you wont get as much booze..
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:08 pm

I have 3 x50l drums. Can I use on the first drum 40l of water an for the next 2 drums 32l water each? I don't have any backset now. The idea is to backset from running the first drum and add 8l on the each of the next 2 drums and leaveit for 24 hours before I distill them?
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:42 pm

You dont have to add backset after fermentation. I have been adding at start with good success. You can ferment any amount you want if not experimenting then stick to recomended 50g per 10kg or percent there of. Work out what percent your ferment is of 40l then reduce same percent from yeast. You may struggle with 40l starting water in 50l vessel as it may overflow. I use 60l vessel and provides enough headroom..
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Re: Mash not required

Postby PeterC » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:19 pm

Well I think I might have stuffed up. Bought 20kg of barley (1 bag $18) and gristed it. Was worried about insects and bacteria so I though I would be clever and mix with hot water first. Well that was dumb. In an esky with the lid off it didn't cool down enough to pitch the yeast. So I left it overnight and this morning it was still over 45C and fizzing away with wild yeast I presume. Have pitched some angel and may pitch some more when the temperature is below 35C. Will see what happens.

Cheers
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Re: Mash not required

Postby wynnum1 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:03 pm

PeterC wrote:Well I think I might have stuffed up. Bought 20kg of barley (1 bag $18) and gristed it. Was worried about insects and bacteria so I though I would be clever and mix with hot water first. Well that was dumb. In an esky with the lid off it didn't cool down enough to pitch the yeast. So I left it overnight and this morning it was still over 45C and fizzing away with wild yeast I presume. Have pitched some angel and may pitch some more when the temperature is below 35C. Will see what happens.

Cheers

Need to get the temperature up high enough to kill bacteria and if used water out of the hot water tap t may not be high enough temperature because they do not want people scalded
Have you looked at making a steamer to steam the grain . .
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:06 pm

You havnt stuffed up. A % will be fermented with wild yeast but angel should out compete it. Will be unique and only repeatable only in your shed...is why most Distilleries use open top fermenters gives a unique flavour..
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Wellsy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:33 am

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Re: Mash not required

Postby Wellsy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:34 am

Going to start my first all grain following blucs 70/20/10 recipe.
Thanks for sharing your info Bluc
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:15 pm

bluc wrote:You dont have to add backset after fermentation. I have been adding at start with good success. You can ferment any amount you want if not experimenting then stick to recomended 50g per 10kg or percent there of. Work out what percent your ferment is of 40l then reduce same percent from yeast. You may struggle with 40l starting water in 50l vessel as it may overflow. I use 60l vessel and provides enough headroom..

I have 3x50L drums with 70/20/10 and I used only 30L of water. I just pitched the yeast and no bubbling after 2 hours. The empty space at the top is 18cm. I was thinking to add at least 5l of water in each drum after the fermentation slows down.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:04 pm

Should ferment fine at 3:1 i did 2.66:1.
Did you add backset at start?

No prob welsy happy to help :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Mash not required

Postby RuddyCrazy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:56 pm

Eh Wellsy time to spit out a link for that yeast mate
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Wellsy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:25 pm

AU $19.60 6% Off | Angel Yeast Wine 500g/pack Alcohol Yeast Active Dry Yeast Fermentation White Wine Brewing With Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Wine
https://star.'unwelcome advertiser'.com/share/share ... ocialShare

It took 2 months delivery and I found one on flea bay from Australia for just a couple of dollars more. If it arrives in a week I will send you the link Bryan
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Wellsy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:41 pm

Ok so I pitched my yeast about 2:00pm @ 28 degrees and it did not seem to do anything. About 6:00pm it was not doing anything much so I pushed the temp up to 32 degrees and by 8:00 it was bubbling nicely. The golden rule here guys is don’t panic if things do go exactly as planned as this yeast seems to be very forgiving

Time will tell of course but so far so good. Thanks again to all the advice others have provided
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:13 pm

bluc wrote:Should ferment fine at 3:1 i did 2.66:1.
Did you add backset at start?

No prob welsy happy to help :handgestures-thumbupleft:

It is my first AG ferment, I don't have any backset
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:21 pm

That right i remember you saying .
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Wellsy » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:32 am

Hey virge
As it is your first AG you won’t have any backset mate.
That is why i opted for using the smaller barrels so that I would have back set and generational improvements before the spirit run.
My guess is you could use a sugar wash backset if you wanted. I opted not too soi would have the full AG taste mate. But this is a personal preference:)
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Re: Mash not required

Postby virge » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:05 pm

I will do the wash without backset this time. I have 3 x 50L drums bubbling for one day now. The fermentation is strong and noisy but I don't see swelling or high foaming. I think it is safe to add at least 5L of water in each drum so I will have more liquid available for distillation from racking the wash. I don't want to push it and have scorching while boiling it.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:01 pm

All more liquid will do is add heat up time. If worried bout scorching leave to clear then rack off the top. Be more fussy with what you leave out Adding extra water wont help you get out more alcohol..
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