All Grain AG experiments

[Sam.]

maheel,

I don't think you should class it as a fail yet, from what I can tell most scotch/whisky/bourbon that is made by the big boys is pretty fucking ordinary straight off the still and it is the aging in oak barrels that gives it over half its flavour (and I presume odour).

Would be interesting to keep some on oak and see how it matures. I hope you do as this is something I really want to try down the track, (when I get my new stills built) probably just try doing some real simple extract brews to start with before going all out into the all grain.

Keep up the good work, I think if you can make something with those methods that is good to drink you have more than a right than most people to claim you make (australian) scotch whisky!

[maheel]

yeah thanks S&L

i am thinking it might even be my pot head ? it's got me thinking i need a plate still....

the output has a a "mixed" smell / taste

it has a bit of a fruity over note smell that i find nasty and discouraging
this could be a yeast issue / fement temp ?

when you sip it i think i can taste some barley in there but it's not getting past the "fruit"
another issue is there is not peat smoke happening so you don't get some of the complexity.

your right i should oak some up, i will air it out a day or so and have another sniff then try a bit of oak.

i might also build another pot head using some old bits i have in the scrap box and try again :)

[MacStill]

i need a plate still....

Yes you do :teasing-neener:

[R-sole]

Fruit could well be a fermentation temp issue. Could be an infection too. I finnished a keg out of a 3 keg batch last week that had the strongest pineapple taste you could barely drink it, second keg from the same batch is good.

I was putting it down to fermentation, but this one would be the same if that's the case...same fermenter.

If you need more smoke and don't want to build a smoke generator, you may have to lash out on some peated barley...

$95 a bag at Craftbrewer though.....

[emptyglass]

Beer lives in glass, whiskey lives in oak.
It can turn a so-so whiskey good, but it turns good whiskey great. Don't age stuff that tastes crap, you'll make better stuff before the crap stuff has time to clean up. Save you oak for good stuff. I think 5Star has some nice charred sticks, IIRC.
Technically, don't you need a once used burbon barrel for scotch?

Good on you for having a dip, Maheel.
Far from me to say whats going on (never done an AG, but aspiring), wouldn't malted grains give a better conversion?

Should be nothing wrong with a pot, but if you want a plated column... :dance:

[maheel]

Beer lives in glass, whiskey lives in oak.
It can turn a so-so whiskey good, but it turns good whiskey great. Don't age stuff that tastes crap, you'll make better stuff before the crap stuff has time to clean up. Save you oak for good stuff. I think 5Star has some nice charred sticks, IIRC.
Technically, don't you need a once used burbon barrel for scotch?

Good on you for having a dip, Maheel.
Far from me to say whats going on (never done an AG, but aspiring), wouldn't malted grains give a better conversion?

Should be nothing wrong with a pot, but if you want a plated column... :dance:

yeah mate used 1/2 and half malted to (4kg of pale ale and 4kg of unmalted barley (feed store) ) i all grain beer so have all the gear on hand

i actually cracked the bottles i had this in the other day and there is an underlying "scotch" flavor but i think the "puke" ruined it

i might have another go at a batch and maybe run it up to temp a lot slower in the 60-75'c climb ? i have a couple of 25k bags of malted grain so have some to spare
might invest in some smoked peat grain for the mash

might break out the 75L esky / mash tun for the job :)

[emptyglass]

I've read that a puke can do that to a run.

Slobber box any good?

I'm not sure, I am led to believe that a brewer makes beer, a distiller makes spirit. They are seperate jobs.
I know if you distill off the shelf beer, youll get a hoppy taste in your spirit that won't go away.
I guess you can drink distillers beer, I always give mine a taste before running, but I wouldn't drink a stubbie of it. A dip of the finger is enough. Not sure what I'm really saying, but I think you should keep the process' seperate(?)

Am I right saying that the alcohol in beer is produced in the bottle after fermenting?

[maheel]

Am I right saying that the alcohol in beer is produced in the bottle after fermenting?

no thats wrong, alc is made in beer in the primary fermenter, only a tiny bit and the Co2 is made "in the bottle"
your thinking of the "sugar in the bottle" beer brewing i assume

i actually keg my beer "flat" then force carbonate it in the keg using co2 gas from a cylinder (no extra sugar)
i am going to measure my 80l ferment barrel if it fits in my fridge if yes i am going to mash a bigger batch of all grain for a better go at it with temp control


i see Barrett Burston galaxy malt is becoming available again, it's got a very high diastatic power so cracked corn users might like that to get some good conversion going

[emptyglass]

your thinking of the "sugar in the bottle" beer brewing i assume

Yep. Showing my beer ignorance now.
I was thinking of the "teaspoon team" that works at CUB, running around putting a spoonful in each stubbie- not.

[maheel]

going to drag this thread back to the top :)

I bought myself 5kg of peated malt today...
i am planing to mash it over Easter and get it fermenting for another try at all-graining "single malt"

plan is to do a proper mash and ferment off the grain
i am yet to decide on if i will boost it with the addition of some ale malt to increase the SG and volume

then use the spent grain for a on the grain sugar head ferment based on the "piggy back method" from over at HD

i might also see if i can get a 2nd conversion happening using the spent grain on some rolled oats and or some wheat germ with a "re-mash"

pics and posts to come later :)

[R-sole]

What is Hd's piggy back method?

[maheel]

Just using the spent grain to do a on grain sugar head. Think it was nc hooch who started the thread over threre.
1 true ag and a sugar head from one mash.

[Jimmy1]

Im most likely wrong but wont the 100% peated malt be too over powering, a single malt beer is made from the one mash using Ale and Peated malt not blended with several batches.
Well I think I have read that somewhere or maybe dreamt it who knows how my head works 8-}

[maheel]

Hey Jimmy

I have to figure how much peated malt is going to give me a result that works
thought if i overdo it (undrinkable from a peat flavor) i can always water it down with some neutral or re-run it ?

i have ALE malt as well so once I open the VAC bag of peated malt i can have a sniff and think about it :)

[Jimmy1]

Yeah I have some peated at home and used it in a failed attempt (give me time) and have found its pretty strong.
Might go nice in a wee heavy for a heart starter in winter :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[maheel]

today with the wort i got from playing with my HERMS (see video thread) i put it in a barrel to let it ferment out.

i did not boil it (higher infection risk) and i threw in a few kilos of "spent grain" the grain would have still have had a high sugar concentration as i only extracted about 55% of the possible sugar from the malt. Because the batch (14L) was small and a poor extraction i chucked in 2Kg of white sugar and topped it up to 25L

so its a on grain ferment from a HERMs pale ale mash sugar head , chucked in some bakers yeast and will see what happens.

once it's done i will rack it off the grain and run it :)

i am yet to do the 5kg of peated grain... will run this 1st as a test / trial / learning run

[maheel]

ran this today, it's been sitting a while as i have been a bit slack.
smelt fine and had cleared pretty well but when i ran it to the boiler it got a little stirred up so maybe i should have racked it 1st...

anyway it went ok and smells interesting, going to let it air and oak it up
ran it with my PSR-25 running at reduced the power to enure i didn't get a puke etc (like last time)
collected about 3L over 7 bottles to weed out some heads and i stopped when i felt is was in the tails and stripped a little off fast

[Sam.]

Maheel, what do you reckon would be the best yeast to use for experiments like these? The good old Lowans? Beer yeasts (US-05 etc) or wine/champagne yeasts?

I would assume if you want to get the FG down as far as possible probably Lowans or the wine/champagne, but if you wanted more flavour left in the wash then maybe the US-05? :think:

[maheel]

mate i got no idea about yeast

i aired it out the product a few days and was not impressed with the end result
maybe it's my pot head thing ? i don't know i just don't like the taste of it

to be honest i prefer my toasted / smoked oaked neutral from my boka and have probably become accustomed to it...

going to give it one last try with the peated malt i have and unless it's something good i am just AG'ing beer from then on and sticking to my TPW neutrals
and one day build a VM in hope it gets faster hearts...

[MacStill]

You need a bubbler :laughing-rolling: