Mash ferment distill corn

by **snoozer** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:47 pm

hey distillers,
So now Im a steam injection fan I've been thinkin why not soak, cook, mash, ferment and distill all in the boiler, I know ive seen it mentioned somewhere.
The corn cant be scorched by the steam so I'm wondering about the need to stir while boiling it. I think stirring probably is ideal for mashing, do hotspots exist if u dont stir while mashing? Distilling (on grain) I think wouldnt need stirring, i mean wont the heat spread out evenly thru the liquid? maybe it depends on the mash thickness. so i just pipe the steam in and strip the mash, then I'll run it up my imaginary bubbler! Hopefully not all 3 steps need stirring? :sad:
scott

by **Sam.** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:49 pm

I reckon I would be more worried about all that yeast in there imparting flavours :puke-huge:

by **snoozer** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:54 pm

Ahh yes! and i forgot the very important question thats always had me scratching my head- if u distill on grain arent u heating up your yeast, bursting it and all sorts of nasties erupting out!? Maybe its not a commercial practice...

by **MacStill** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:05 pm

I never wait for my UJ or rum to settle, I like the yeast in there..... mmmmmm yummmmm :shifty:

It's personal preference mate, but if you ferment and distill in the same container you will need to stir it up before you heat it.

Corn mash is soo thick I reckon it will still stick and burn if you dont keep it moving before the boil starts.

by **kiwikeg** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:13 pm

Its great how threads pop up with what you have been googling. I was looking closely at a steam injection boiler concept but this video put me off the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbreKn4P ... re=related
:music-deathmetal:

by **Urrazeb** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:35 pm

You wouldn't be able to keep gens going either which is the point of a grain mash

by **snoozer** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:41 pm

But would it stick and burn if I was using steam to distill? That was why I asked, no matter how thick it is "in theory" it can't burn with steam right? especially if it was a thin watery mash. maybe different in reality?

by **Kimbo** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:47 pm

snoozer wrote:But would it stick and burn if I was using steam to distill? That was why I asked, no matter how thick it is "in theory" it can't burn with steam right? especially if it was a thin watery mash. maybe different in reality?

If it's thick then you didnt get good conversion and there is bugger all alcohol to distill.
if its a thin mash then no, it wont burn but you will be getting off flavours from the yeast and you will be starting from scratch each time.

by **snoozer** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:21 pm

ok, so if I line the boiler with a BIAB bag from the start and just pull it out after ferment, squeeze bag out and direct-inject steam to distill cleared beer ,it could work possibly. Doesnt matter about water quantity increase from condensed steam or declining alc vapour percentage with plates.
Makes me wonder how/why people distill on the grain if its detrimental to quality!

by **Urrazeb** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:30 pm

No it will not burn with steam as the heat source, in order to burn it would require direct heat much higher than boiling temp, and in this situation it would kind of be like cooking with a double boiler, it would however be harder to control temp as you need to boil water to create steam, so if for instance you condenser for any reason couldn't handle the vapour output rate then a reduction in heat to the steam source would cause a stand still, unless you fit a valve to be able to control the amount of steam entering the boiler but I do believe this would render the idea too much hassle for the small (if any) benefit to be gained.

by **snoozer** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:56 pm

yeah could be too much hassle. i was thinking of having a big shotgun with a heap of tubes that could handle like 8kW and a remote beerkeg pressure steamer ala pintoshine to pipe steam in with a bv to control flow.
too much hassle for the small gain, well thats a personal decision i guess but if it means i can steam distill it would be worth it for me, i may need a mechanical stirrer tho'?
I guess my original question was "using steam injection, which of the steps of cooking, mashing and distilling would require stirring?"
it seems like if straining before distilling u would hoist the bag up & let it drip dry maybe with a bit of a rinse to get all of it, let it settle for a few hours and rack it off the pasty sludge. I hope it could work

by **crow** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:57 pm

Quick read of this thread makes me wonder what it is you hope to achieve , just thinking out loud here but seems to me you are willing to spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hrs to save the 2 min job of transferring a wash from a fermenter to boiler. :think: am I missing something . The other reall issue I haven't seen addressed in this thread is the very real danger of distilling with solids, if you get a puke (very likely with solids in) that shit can block stuff up and soon you got a IED on ya hands, ask me how I know :))

by **snoozer** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:55 pm

What I am trying to achieve is to see if i could do everything with steam and ideally in the one pot. No reason i cant transfer from fermenter to boiler i was just curious if i couldn't do it in the same pot. puking-theres another reason i would be straining before distilling. Yeah it prolly is impractical.