Freezer to cool recycled water

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Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby R3dRanga » Fri May 07, 2021 4:46 pm

[ I’m not sure if this is the correct place to post, or under reflux stills? ]

Happy Friday all. In preparation for tonight’s hack engineering session where I will attempt to setup a water-cooling system (take 3!), I’m hoping to get some input from the brains trust.

I’m planning to upgrade to a Boka soon but in the meantime, I couldn’t resist - I recently purchased a 2nd hand reflux still (Spirit Maker) that was 5min away, cheap and came with a 25-30L boiler plus heaps of other gear. Not ideal, but it’ll have to do for now, and a step up from the airstill.

I’m currently recycling the water through a standard sized wizbin with submersible pump. I quickly discovered that wasn’t sufficient and the water source was lukewarm after about an hour or so in. I then rigged up a hose coil inside a large bucket inserting a big ice brick in the middle of the coil (replaced every ~20-40min with a fresh ice brick). The bucket water was icy cold, but the water within the plastic hose didn’t cool and so it was still running into the wizbin warm. At the next run I replaced the plastic hose with copper coil – that ‘nearly’ got me through the run, but I had to abort a tad early as it eventually ran too hot (again!). But heaps better. I went through about 8 ice bricks tho!

I claimed an old mini-bar fridge that had been collecting dust at the office for 3 years. The idea was to run the copper coil through the freezer. Despite doing as much research as I could on the fridge model and drilling, I struck the refrigerant line on my first drill hole. Oops! Despite some forum posts claiming otherwise, I can confirm that there are sometimes cooling lines running down the side of a fridge (even a mini bar fridge!).

In a stroke of uncanny good luck, I was given a 2nd-hand mini bar freezer yesterday. It’s a cheap Homemaker brand, but it works fine. It has really thick sides and when I powered it up the outer sides were warm. To avoid making the same mistake I’m thinking the safest entry is via the door. Obviously I’ll need flex in my hoses to accommodate for opening/closing the door. If I get it rigged up and working, I’d probably get the cooling system running before turning on the boiler so my water source is ice cold before I even start the run.

So (after that essay!)… any advice on modifying my freezer? Anyone else using a fridge/freezer to cool recycled water? Will it provide a sufficient cooling system?

And should I consider a power controller instead OR as well?

Thanks in advance!
RR

PS: Hope you’re all enjoying the fruits of your labour tonight. I’m running a little dry until I can sort my overheating problem.

** Cha-chink **
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby BigRig » Fri May 07, 2021 5:44 pm

So are you planning on running the return water through the freezer then into your reservoir to be repumped through the still ?
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby BigRig » Fri May 07, 2021 6:00 pm

You could try to install the reservoir in the freezer or better still turn the freezer in to the reservoir.

Not the same style but go to the 21min mark on this clip, might give some ideas https://youtu.be/oBHIc6LwH6o
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby Doubleuj » Fri May 07, 2021 10:04 pm

Honestly I think you’re over thinking it ranga
It is a novel idea and outside the box but..
The problem isn’t with your cooling water, it’s with the inefficiency of the reflux condenser.
I’d get cracking on that boka asap before you spend more time and money on worrying about cooling your water.
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby R3dRanga » Fri May 07, 2021 11:45 pm

Thanks for replies!

So are you planning on running the return water through the freezer then into your reservoir to be repumped through the still ?


Yes. That was the idea BigRig. I considered a bigger water source, but I've already taken over lots of space with my new hobby. I like the idea of keeping it somewhat compact. In summer, I suspect I would still have the same issue regardless of reservoir size. Also, I'm not keen to waste water. It just feels very wrong to have it go down the drain.

I watched the vid you posted. I like the chest freezer concept - very much! The freezer I have is a shelf/draw freezer, so I guess I'll have to play with what I have right now. Perhaps a future plan tho.

I've (successfully) drilled 2 holes in the front door of the mini freezer and now have a plan to rig up the water flow, but I'll need to visit the hardware store for a few hose connectors etc.

The problem isn’t with your cooling water, it’s with the inefficiency of the reflux condenser.


Thanks for your input Doubleuj. So, you think that the wizbin and bucket cooling system would be adequate if I had a boka? I didn't really consider that. I thought I'd have similar cooling problems regardless. I was approaching this as the 'test' cooling system so my rig is sorted before the boka upgrade.
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby Dancing4dan » Sat May 08, 2021 12:24 am

Think in terms of BTUs. Any heat (BTUs) your boiler puts in, you condenser and water reservoir have to remove. So if you are going to use refrigeration to cool your condenser water, you will need a cooling unit proportionate to your heat input.

OR! At least proportionate enough to keep the coolant water temperature to still out put temperature differential such that the condenser will knock down all of the steam output.

In other words the refrigeration system needs to have enough cooling capacity to keep up with the heating element or burner.

This may not be entirely accurate… but it is my understanding.
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby andybear » Sat May 08, 2021 8:51 am

I agree with d4d. And it's unlikely that the freezer has the cooling capacity that's equivalent to your heating capacity.
I think you need to cool the water before it gets to the freezer. Try using either a car radiator with the thermo fan attached or a split system ac unit with the hot water running through the coolant line. You can find discussions on the ac option in this forum.
You may find that you don't even need the freezer to cool your water. Then you'll have more space where to store fish and meat
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby B-Man » Sat May 08, 2021 11:11 pm

I don't think it would work.
a larger reservoir would though. 380L done 3 consecutive stripping runs for me with a T500. If your running in summer use a larger one.
the cheapest easiest solutions is a ozito submersible pump and 1000L IBC. (Cheap large reservoir and cheap pump with lots of pressure).

I'm trying for a clean tidy compact look so i repurposed an old A?C condenser and run the water through the copper cooling tubes and have the fans running to suck air through. it seems to cool the water to ambient air temps so cant get much better than that. except for when its 30°+ beforehand during summer.
Last edited by B-Man on Sat May 08, 2021 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby Tallone » Mon May 10, 2021 6:32 pm

BigRig wrote:You could try to install the reservoir in the freezer or better still turn the freezer in to the reservoir.

Not the same style but go to the 21min mark on this clip, might give some ideas https://youtu.be/oBHIc6LwH6o


I used the exact same method on the video I'm using a aquarium pump that pumps more than 8 liters a minute .

It works a treat :text-+1:
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby Dude » Mon May 17, 2021 7:32 am

BigRig wrote:You could try to install the reservoir in the freezer or better still turn the freezer in to the reservoir.

Not the same style but go to the 21min mark on this clip, might give some ideas https://youtu.be/oBHIc6LwH6o


I have been toying with the idea of one of those 1000l IBC things but believe this freezer method is much better.
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby bluc » Mon May 17, 2021 10:25 am

Look at aquarium chillers if your set on refrigerator will be better then a freezer. I wouldnt bother and would choose an ibc again instead.
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby Dude » Mon May 17, 2021 10:33 am

Hi bluc, not really set on the freezer although I thought it a good idea. The IBC is also a good idea and has no cost to run like the freezer and my goal is to be environmentally friendly with the process. I have been watching FB marketplace for a 2 or 3000 litre water tank.
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby The Stig » Mon May 17, 2021 11:06 am

A large water tank will give a consistent temp throughout the run.
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby bluc » Mon May 17, 2021 11:09 am

:text-+1:
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby rushn » Wed May 19, 2021 1:29 pm

Here's my take...

Strip down the fridge/freezer to remove the compressor and coolant lines. Mount the heat exchanger and compressor to the outside of your wizzbin or on a frame beside it, and insert the evaporator into the water in the wizzbin to chill the water. You can pre-chill the water prior to your run, then cycle the power to keep the water at a reasonable temp to save electricity. If you're handy, this would be a reasonably easy project.

George from Barley & Hops has done something similar with an old windows-style air conditioner and large esky. The concept is the same with a fridge and wheelie bin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNCqRKW ... opsBrewing

I'm considering doing something similar for summer still'n :)

Cheers
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby R3dRanga » Wed May 19, 2021 10:35 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

Strip down the fridge/freezer to remove the compressor and coolant lines

That honestly sounds like an ingenious plan rushn, but well beyond my skill level! You can bag me out once you've read what I come up with!

I don't have the space for a big tank (and would prefer to keep things as compact as possible). I also run off solar, so no real cost to run the little freezer. I think (??) I've now got the cooling system sorted using the bar freezer I scored.

Here's what I've done:
- Hose in via the top of the freezer door (front-facing) for incoming, warm water off the still
- Using a bit of flex hose to accommodate door opening/closing, it's then attached to a copper coil sitting on the top shelf.
- The copper coil then feeds the water into a reservoir on the next shelf (via a short piece of open hose).
- Then the overflow from reservoir #1 feeds into another reservoir on the the 3rd shelf, and again on the bottom shelf.
- The outflow then goes through a hose fed through the bottom of the fridge door (again, flexible to accommodate opening/closing of the door) and into my 30-40L reservoir which sits lower (water is gravity feed from the freezer output hose). A submersible pump then feeds the chilled water back into the still.

I fill each reservoir in the freezer at least half way and freeze it solid before running the still. The beauty about this little freezer is the shelves are made from what feels like tin foil! And the cooling lines are exposed and visible under each shelf, so very easy to avoid. I've just punched a hole in the shelves to run the overflow hose for each reservoir.

My little hand draw diagram might help to explain:
IMG_3087.jpg


I've set it all up relatively neatly with hose fittings and washers etc, but there's still some tweaking to be done and some more permanent sealing and fastening.

The 2x test runs have been positive. I'm sure there are plenty improvements that could be made. As a backup plan, I had a large wiz bin full of water on hand should the pump reservoir start to warm up, but I didn't need it. I may need it in summer or with longer runs. The output water which returns to the still is very chilled even after 2-3 hours.

I really only went down this path because I had the bar freezer on-hand and wanted to make use of it. Plus it's been a lot of fun getting it setup - even though I'm a hack and totally making it up as I go.

I'm relatively happy with the way that's all working BUT I'm still not confident with how the reflux still is running. I think that's another problem best posted in the reflux still section (feel free to jump in when I post there!)

Cheers,
RR
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Re: Freezer to cool recycled water

Postby rushn » Thu May 20, 2021 11:30 am

R3dRanga wrote:You can bag me out once you've read what I come up with!


No bagging out mate. Do what works best for you within your skillset.

I hope it all goes to plan.

Cheers
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