Ground zero question

Just starting out and need some advise? then post it in here.

Ground zero question

Postby shai » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:06 pm

Hi All, absolute newbee here..never done any brewing/distilling of any sorts. Have read through beginers guides and understand the basic types of stills and that it can take a week to get product which has associated costs. I am a vodka and scotch drinker. I have 3 questions and would be very grateful if someone takes the time out to answer.

Question 1 - Can home distilling actually produce a commercial level triple distilled vodka or a decent scotch and I am sure that is dependent on factors so I am talking with the best equipment and ingredients but without an expert driving the process ..honest opinion please.

Question 2 - Is there a one stop shop to buy a whole set up and get it shipped, a set up that is known and can be resold if it doesnt work out.. I am in Perth. I am aware of 5 star but looking for options.

Question 3 - Is there a knowledgable member in Perth who would not mind giving some tips and pointers and if I may be cheeky, let me sample some produce :oops:

Thanks in advance...Shai
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby The Stig » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:18 pm

Yes, and even better
Yes
No idea sorry but...................
.
The real questions are:
What do you really want to make ? IE all grain or cordials ? Or something in between :clap:
What’s the budget ?
What time frame are we talking ? 2 weeks or 2 years ?
What sort of room do you have to devote to the “hobby”?
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby shai » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:27 pm

Thanks stig ..if the answer to the first question is yes and even better then budget is not a problem neither is the space. So now T 500 and a cross between reflux and pot combo is all I can see online. What other choices do I have and I obviously need something foolproof being a beginner. Thanks for answering by the way didnt think anyone would bother.
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Sam. » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:16 am

Seeming you want to make vodka and a brown spirit (whisky) you are going to need a reflux still to make acceptable vodka (or a bubbler with a packed section), and to make whisky you will need a pot still (or a 4 plate bubbler).

With a pot still you will need to do strip runs before a spirit run for the whisky or just a single run through a 4 plate bubbler.

A pot still and a basic reflux are both easier to operate than a bubbler but a bubbler is not hard to get right if you follow the directions on this forum.

Hope that makes sense ;-)
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Wellsy » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:19 am

Hello shai
Like you I am a complete novice. I wanted to brew whiskeys and bourbons and started looking at air still, but changed to T500 when I went to home brew shop.
I found this site and changed my mind when I understood I needed a pot still. I eventually settled on a 50 litre boiler with the 4 inch five star pot still. I chose this option because it allowed me to upgrade later if I choose too.
The one downside of the 50 litre boiler is the exposed elements so you can’t do small runs like you can in the 25 litre boiler. This is not an issue for me but needs to be considered.
I can’t recommend highly enough giving Andrew at 5 star a call. He is great at getting you to focus on what you really want.
I am doing my for spirit run tomorrow so will tell you at Christmas if I have a drinkable enjoyable product.
If I don’t I believe it will be my fault as I will be the only one not to have been able to produce a nice drink.
I suggest you have some serious choices to make but am confident if you are happy to put the time into production and are patient you will get a nice smooth drink.
If you are looking for something you can setup, turn on, and come back 4 hours later and everything is done you will not find it unfortunately. Your product needs your time and love to get the best results.
I hope that makes some sense to you mate.
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Carol » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:29 am

Hi Shai
I am a comparative newbie. I have a FSD 2" boka and pot. It is a qualith product. I think I make pretty good stuff - as do my various taste testers. There is a thread on my boka in reflux stills ( I think there are pictures of the pot set up as well). That will give you an idea of size. The 2" suits me as it is small, easy to use and I have plenty of time.

I agree that it is worth talking to Andrew about what you want to make and he can advise the equipment that will best suit your needs.

This forum is a fount of knowledge and people are very helpful. But I am sure all of the newbies will agree that there is a lot to learn. It is heaps of fun though.

Cheers
Carol
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby shai » Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:00 pm

Thanks guys for all your kind replies
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Amberale » Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:46 pm

If $$$ are no object then go straight to a 4” bubbler.
You can remove sections to turn it into a pot still for whiskeys or stack them all on for a great neutral.
Double distil with generous cuts and you will have a neutral that is equal or better than anything you can buy, anything.
In my opinion;
The 4” gives you the best non-commercial speed/quality compromise and a 50 litre milk can is ideally matched.
If you are really loaded then a 100litre milk can for stripping runs is a great addition( I want one!)
A Neutraliser or Glasser from 5star is my recommendation depending on how much you like to watch.

I have a Neutraliser on a 50ltr milk can and make neutrals that I drink either: as is, after sitting on wood for a while, with gin cordial added or (mainly) irish whisky cordial added.
I am waiting for a genius to come up with a home made recipe for jamesons but meantime I buy flavouring.
I will end up with a Carter head for gin but I just spent that money on a new espresso machine.

I cannot recommend Andrew highly enough even though he won’t give me a discount on that carter head or 100 milky no matter how much I crawl. :)
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby southern45 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:17 am

Forget about the T500 if you're got the cash and space to invest in making a decent product!

Get yourself a 5 Star 4" bubbler, five plates plus a packed section, mate that to a 50L milk can boiler on two elements and you're laughing.

Can - https://www.5stardistilling.com/product/50l-milk-can-boiler/

Still - https://www.5stardistilling.com/product/4-fsd-neutralizer/

That'll give you options to make what you are after. There's a bunch of other accessories and whatnot you'll need also of course.
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Pour Decision » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:49 am

I'm currently in the process of buying all the components for another still build and am shocked at the price difference between online sellers. For instance a 2" stainless tri clamp ferrule can range from $1.60 to $9.90. This is a huge difference on such a cheap part so imagine the potential difference in price of a complete still packages.

I would recommend you do a little more research in google as there are a number of companies in Australia selling turn key packages, some good and some not so good. I know of a few however you aren't allowed to mention any sellers other than 5 star here as this forum is owned by them. If you are interested please PM me.

Another option would be a still builder here in Australia. Usually they build from copper not stainless steel (copper is better in my opinion) and because they build the stills they know the product and exactly how they work. I purchased a copper bubble plate still a few years back from one of these builders and it was an awesome experience. The after sales service was brilliant and it got me up and running in no time. I have since sold that still and only lost $100 on it when I sold it second hand. I found it was a great way to get started.

Lastly, If you want to produce a quality product you need to start with quality equipment and ingredients. It's definitely not cheap to get set up in this hobby but as the saying goes, "buy onece, cry once" When it comes to ingredients, "Crap in = Crap out" so buy the best ingredients you can.

Cheers
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Professor Green » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:03 am

Pour Decision wrote:I'm currently in the process of buying all the components for another still build and am shocked at the price difference between online sellers. For instance a 2" stainless tri clamp ferrule can range from $1.60 to $9.90. This is a huge difference on such a cheap part so imagine the potential difference in price of a complete still packages.


There is also a huge difference in quality and after sales care. Just saying...
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Professor Green » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:11 am

Pour Decision wrote:I would recommend you do a little more research in google as there are a number of companies in Australia selling turn key packages, some good and some not so good. I know of a few however you aren't allowed to mention any sellers other than 5 star here as this forum is owned by them. If you are interested please PM me.


:naughty:

I think you'll find the main reason 5 Star are highly spruiked here is down to the quality of the equipment and pre/post sales care that they offer. If it wasn't that good it either wouldn't get mentioned so much or we would simply frequent a different forum.
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Professor Green » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:46 am

Hi Shai,

You can definitely equal if not better commercial spirit offerings at home as you have ultimate control over the end result and you don't have to make the same kinds of compromises they often do, usually for economical purposes.

The equipment you buy will largely be set by what type of spirits you want to make, how much you want to make, how much room you have in which to make it how much time you have to do it. The biggest factor is usually budget though. Whatever you choose, there will still be a learning curve, it's not really a set and forget kind of process but most of the stills available are reasonably easy to operate.

You mentioned vodka and scotch, both are made slightly differently. For the Vodka you will need a reflux column which will strip out the flavours from the wash and leave you with a nice neutral flavoured spirit. Obviously for scotch you are looking for flavour so a reflux still is no good for that therefore a pot still or a bubbler is what is required. The difference between the pt and bubbler is that with pot still you would need to process the spirits twice (fast stripping run and slow spirit run) whereas with the bubbler you would be able to do it in a single run (which is why everybody likes and recommends them). You don't necessarily need to buy two stills either as you can also get a modular system that fits together in different configurations to achieve the different types of still.

Here are some ideas for off-the-shelf setups (all available from 5 Star of course):
  • 25 litre boiler with a 2" boka with extra bits to run it as a pot still. Good if you don't have much room to run in or only want to run 20ish litre washes. Boka for vodka, pot for scotch.
  • 50 litre boiler with the above 2" set up. A bit more expensive but allows you to do larger runs.
  • 50 litre boiler with a 4" Neutraliser. The most expensive option but allows you to do larger runs with decreased run time compared to a 2" still and, being modular, can be configured as a pot still/4 plate bubbler/reflux column for scotch/vodka and just about any other spirit you want to make.


Hope this helps.
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Wellsy » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:33 pm

Hello Shai
I definitely echo the comments about how good 5 star products are. I got my first ever still in mid September and was very confused by all the options. All I knew was I wanted to make whiskey and bourbon. That put me on the pot still path. I called Andrew at 5 star and after talking about maybe upgrading later once I found my feet he suggested the 4inch pot on a 50 litre boiler as it gave the best upgrade options. There was no pressure from him at all and he was happy to offer options and give his suggestions with out any guarantees about me buying. He was a pleasure to deal with and still is. Work out your budget mate and what you want to make that helps narrow the options. Then talk to the people who run the stills you are looking at because they will tell you the pitfalls and potential rookie mistakes.
It is well worth calling Andrew as he is a straight shooter
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby corrymeela » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:28 pm

hi Shai,
i was in your position a year ago but found this forum and spent couple of months reading up- avoided buying a T500 which after reading user reports i realise would have really frustrated me.
came to conclusion that the 5 star neutraliser could do everything i wanted-neutral plus brown spirits-and do a run fairly quickly,ie pencil stream output of 95% alcohol.
i just dont have the time(or patience) for drip drip dribble output.
following the 'tried and tested' recipes here i could make vodka better than anything i have bought -of course a big part of that is making the 'cuts'.
great thing about vodka is you can have the finished product 7 days after starting your wash..

i am sure there are other stills on the market that are excellent,but in a few months looking i couldnt find one with such comprehensive user experience and positive feedback as the 5star product.
and aye,despite being a Yorkshireman,Andrew really is very helpful and knowledgeable and great customer service :)
cheers!
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Wellsy » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:57 pm

Did you make a decision yet Shai or are you still looking?
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby Andrew » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:18 pm

corrymeela wrote:despite being a Yorkshireman,Andrew really is very helpful and knowledgeable and great customer service :)

:laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Ground zero question

Postby howard » Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:06 am

corrymeela wrote:hi Shai,

and aye,despite being a Yorkshireman,Andrew really is very helpful and knowledgeable and great customer service :)
cheers!

oi, he can't help being born on the wrong side of the pennines

but with 20/20 hindsight, and a small lotto win..................
my choice would be a FSD 100l milk can with a FSD 4" visualizer.
there would be something almost therapeutic about watching those plates load up, like an open fire.
but deffo at least 4" for speed of distillation.
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