Easiest way to get azeotrope

[Sir Munted]

I'll only ever want 95% alcohol and nothing else (allergy reasons). I also don't have a lot of spare energy so I'm after least effort. Run a single wash once.


Is it possible to do a 10% wash on a 2inch boka (5 star) and get 95%? Maybe extending column will help?

I'll buy SPP if needed but will start with SS scrubbers and ceramic aquarium filter rings.



Undecided if I'll have a 25L (2000W) or 50L (2500W) boiler. I'm limited to 10A.

[RC Al]

How tall is your cieling? More height is a great solution for your desire and I believe the best soluton cost wise. I have seen high abv out of very short columns on spp, but you would want to go with a source who lists sizes to suit particular diameters. You can make most reflux stills make 95 with enough power and reflux, but the the fractions will remain jumbled (smeared) due to too much vapour speed preventng equilibrium.

95% that is tastless (and thereby implying high purity) in a single run is a high expectation for a beginner, even higher if you dont have any previous fermenting experience. If i was making a wash for as little taste as possible, 10% would not be my target abv - more like 6% to help reduce off flavours from yeast stress. Unfortunately that would make it harder to achieve the single run goal

The larger boiler will help with the abv and cuts to a small extent, doing strip runs and then using 40% in the boiler will help more

[Professor Green]

:text-+1: on all of the above.

I think SPP is going to be an expensive option. Not sure I'd mix stainless scrubbers and ceramic rings. Stainless scrubbers and some copper mesh will work very well and will cover you off for sulfide removal too.

I agree with RC that height and a strip/spirit run strategy is the easiest and most cost effective path to purity. The 5 Star 2" Boka works extremely well. I have run one with with an extra packed section in the past and had no trouble achieving outstanding neutral with stripped WBAB as the wash (2 washes stripped in a pot still then combined and run slowly through the boka).

There's no easy way to azeo, a bit of effort with the right wash (TPW/FFV/WBWB), strip/spirit run and good cuts will get you there though.

Hope this helps.

[WhiskeySour]

:text-+1: on all of the above.

There's no easy way to azeo, a bit of effort with the right wash (TPW/FFV/WBWB), strip/spirit run and good cuts will get you there though.

Hope this helps.

:text-+1: :text-+1:
The extra time/effort to strip first then slow spirit is absolutely worth it. Actually probably quicker and easier in the long run any way. Will give you much more control on your final run and will yield you multiple litres of the nice clean spirit you are chasing, rather than 1-2 litres of potentially smeared 95% fractions

[scythe]

I thought it was the agreed rule of thumb that a strip run followed by a spirit run was actually faster.

Its all to do with the starting %ABV.
To go from 5%-10% wash to 40%-50% low wines is one distillation cycle, but for each subsequent distillation cycle you don't get the same jump in %ABV.

For a 4" bubbler you get about 92%-94% with 5 plates.
A packed section will get you to 95.6% depending on packing and length.

For a 2" to get 95.6% you will need about 1.5m of packed column.
Speed will be slow, maybe around 1-1.5L/hr for the whole run with a 5%-10% wash.
Where stripping can be done at threes or four times that rate.

[Amberale]

By “not a lot of energy” do you mean electric/gas power or personal energy?
I’m not sure if you are physically compromised or on a solar/generator set up.
I can think of ways to help the physical and someone else will know about low power stills.

[Sir Munted]

Thanks. I guess the spirit run is unavoidable when aiming for 95%.

I wanted less handling because of physical limitations due to health issues. Basically chronic fatigue, immune system farked and extreme food sensitivity after Hep B vaccine damage 13 years ago. Back problems too so lifting weight and bending is an issue.

Space is a bit of an issue atm until I move from a small unit. I'll have family to help with a reflux still then. Then I can do 75L/150L wash, 3 strips, storing low wines, etc
I'm starting to see the appeal of an air still (with a timer).

Other 'less handling' option, 25L wash, running twice for 70-80% in a small pot still with ingredients I may not react too. It's a huge gamble.

Likely "Shady's Sugar Shine" is the only option.

25L
4.5kg sugar
42g yeast (2 tbsp)
60g oyster shell (1/4 cup)

nutrient
42g yeast (boiled)
2 vitamin b complex (optional)
12g DAP (1 tbsp)
small pinch epsom salt (optional)

30C ferment, Lowans

I'm not a fussy drinker, except with wine, which I can't drink now.
People can drink cachaca or white rum and not need a liver transplant so I guess it's fine.

Yep, I'm buying white rum to compare to Polmos Spirytus Rektykiowany for allergy reaction. If the rum does not mess me up bad, I'm buying an air still until I can get something better.
If white rum does mess me up then a single run extended boka with smearing is better than nothing.

[Wellsy]

I am confused as I can’t quite follow the story mate.
You are saying due to illness you can’t do long stints at the still so you are looking at an air still option. This is also an option because you can’t lift any heavy ingredients.
You are also saying this is only a short term issue until you move when you will be able to do 75 or 125 litre washes.
What have I misunderstood my friend because these statements don’t go together when read the way I interrupted them.
If your only option is an air still and the only recipe you can consume you already have I am not sure what your question is
Good luck with your health issues

[Sam.]

If you don’t have time to watch a still then this hobby is not for you.

[The Stig]

An air still is a very basic pot still and will never achieve more than around 65% on a single run

[Sir Munted]

TL;DR Thanks. question answered. This noob has read many, many hours of this forum and others and has experience in stuff similar to fermenting/still. My practical experience is all that's lacking.

You are saying due to illness you can’t do long stints at the still

No. Movement is a problem. Lifting, arranging, transferring, cleaning, walking, etc. Imagine life with a constant 39 degree temperature and a concussion and a mild case of poisoning. It never stops.

so you are looking at an air still option. This is also an option because you can’t lift any heavy ingredients.

yes, unfortunately movement is a problem.

You are also saying this is only a short term issue until you move when you will be able to do 75 or 125 litre washes.

with help from family

I am not sure what your question is
Good luck with your health issues

Not sure I've asked a question in last post, more like considering options... and sincerely thanks for the well wishes. Very much appreciated.

If you don’t have time to watch a still then this hobby is not for you.

for the last 13 years my life has been sitting/laying 99% of a day. I have all the time in the word. I chose fermenting because after 13 years no doctor can fix what the vaccine did :/ so why not start drinking now and then.

An air still is a very basic pot still and will never achieve more than around 65% on a single run

yes a very small pot still with all it's problems. I'll always use the same 25L wash and 4Lx5runs on a timer for spirit run. May get 40%. Run 40% again and may get 75%+/- .
The bonus is I can easily refill & clean. I'll only need 2x 5L bottles for low wines and finished product. 25L fermenter is easy to handle. I'm always home so little batches are not a problem.

My old man is a boiler maker and I can weld ok so I'd love to build a 50L ccvm with him. Another 50L keg for low wines and another 50L keg for feints. I'd absolutely want temp controlled fermenter as basic mycology/botany/biology work has given me much experience at growing/propagating stuff. I've got decent experience/education in electronics.
I want 95% but have to settle for less IF possible... I have to :(

I currently drink Polmos Spirytus Rektyfikowany or vodka diluted to about 8% in water because I have to, stupid allergies/sensitivity.
I do use a minute amount of ascorbic acid and salt to clean up sydney water taste. It's a boring drink.

When life gives you lemons, make limoncello.

It all depends on if I have a bad reaction to Shady's Sugar Shine distilled to 75%. Risky but my only option atm.

[scythe]

What is your allergy to?
Anything specific?

[Sir Munted]

Allergy/sensitivity effects.

headache
extreme fatigue
muscle pain
decreased cognitive function
shortness of breath
dry eyes
irritability (turbo charged adrenaline(fire/monster))
many other misc crap

It's easier to list what I can eat

unprocessed meat/fish (no chicken skin)
green leafy vegetables and herbs excluding sulphur containing.
Broccoli
Eggplant
Squash
cucumber
mushrooms
unpackaged carrots (no SO2)
eggs
field tomatoes only
banana
salt

and yes yeast is not totally reaction free either. That list is no bs. If it's not in that list I can't have it. Ok, beans (azuki) give only half as severe effects but still bad enough. No oil, butter, milk, sugar, grains, fruit, pepper, onions, smoked food, cheese, vinegar, etc. You get the idea.

That's why I was looking at azeotrope. Unfortunately too much effort atm. I'm familiar with steam carrying anything water soluble and oil compounds too but pot still is the only option atm.

I'm assuming that I had a very slight allergy to some of these things before the vaccination. An hour after vaccination I could barely move or speak. I moderately improved over the next 6-12months but no further. I only found out later by being too tired to eat for 3 days that part of my symptoms were from food allergy/sensitivity amplified by reaction to vaccination. It does take time for things to move through your system till you pass it all.

Too bad there's nothing fermentable in my food list. Luckily sugar does not carry easily in steam. I'll definitely be testing NaCO3 on my spirit run and some final carbon filter.

[The Stig]

green leafy vegetables and herbs excluding sulphur containing

You could from that list do a kale wash and gin it

[scythe]

That was my thought too stig but kale is a good source of sulfur...
Maybe carrots, lots of carrots...

[The Stig]

Damn :angry-banghead:

[RuddyCrazy]

or just make a banana brandy :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[Sir Munted]

I have no idea of how much sulphate from epson salts (MgSO4) is too much/undesirable even for other people. It did not make sense to me, adding something that you want to remove (sulphur).

I guess copper is needed for trace sulphates anyway so the epson salts may make no difference? I'll test magnesium oxide which can be bought for horses.

I'll test shady's sugar shine and and maybe banana brandy but I'll assume almost all flavour will be lost a 75% adv.

Thanks again for all the info.


My priority

Test Polmos Spirytus Rektykiowany vs white rum vs vodka and buy air still if white rum is ok

If not, try single run extended boka or just keep buying Polmos Spirytus Rektykiowany :( and miss out on the fun of fermenting/stilling and just read books and watch stuff instead.

[Professor Green]

Wow, it sounds like you're really restricted in what you can go with mate.

I really think a 2" boka on a 25l litre boiler is going to be you're best starting point in your quest for azeo, an air still just won't cut it.

If you're a bit clever with the positioning of your vessels and use gravity to move the liquids around you should be able to operate without any lifting.

Another option is to use a high temp magnetic pump to move the liquids around - I do this with my 250 litre fermenter and 100 litre boiler.

[RuddyCrazy]

With my 2 off 60 litre fermenters I have them raised above the input of the keg boiler, now when I want to transfer the ferment I just setup a 10mm plastic hose and get a siphon going.