Malted Corn

[FatManDancing]

My first taste of bourbon as a 14 year old was Heaven Hill. I thought it might be fun to try to recreate it at home. I have the approx mash bill

I bought malted corn though. Reading about it after I bought it has left me a bit confused. Some sources say just mash in and be done but the maltster says bring to boil for 10 to 20 minutes before mashing in

To me that kinda defeats the purpose of even malting corn, but they made it... :? :? :?

My thoughts are to mash in at 62 for an hour, use as much of the enzymes available (25 lintner) and then bring to boil to release the rest of the starches for the other grains(rye and barley) to do what they do to convert the rest

I hope I am on the right track because strike water is near temp

[bluc]

If you have enzymes no harm in boiling but I am with you should be able just mash it if its properly malted..

[FatManDancing]

Thanks Bluc. I was relying totally on the enzymes in the grain. I have no additive

I also failed. I brewed a Kolsch beer before on the same mash tun and exceeded my targets so I know it is not an equipment issue

Seven or so KG of grain should produce more than 1050. Five KG of malted corn, 900 gm of two row and 850 gm of rye. The corn was mashed at 62 for an hour then boiled for 20 mins. I brought temp back down and mashed in the rest of the grains

Change of plan. I am gonna ferment on the grain and treat this as a gen ferment


I also learned how to mill corn, so at least that pain in my ass is over

[FatManDancing]

As an aside, if anybody knows of an electrician in the Sunshine, Footscray area who will wire up a FSD 2400w element then please let me know

[RC Al]

As you have plenty of other malts there (26%, heaps to do the mash on thier own, it was malted rye yes?) and proceeded to mash normally, that would leave the possibilty that the grain itself had a low sugar content, or you stuffed up somewhere. What were your mashing times/temps? How fresh was each grain? Are you able to look up the manufacturers diastic rating for the malts used? It seems there is a big difference between brands and country of origin.

I think that the malt is there for flavour in this case (provided the HH directions are correct), a 100% malted corn mash certinally wouldn't get boiled. Some of the hobby level mashes I have looked at will leave it at mash temp for days to achive the lower temp gelaitanization. Many seem to get a low yield even with good procedures.

Corn you evil thing, why do you have to taste so good? lols

[wynnum1]

What type of corn do they malt because the feed corn does not have the flavour of old types of corn and if mash out completely to make fermentables going to have less flavour.

[FatManDancing]

I did two more mashes of the exact same mash bill

The first one I just mashed all grains in at 63 and held it there for two hours. I got a paltry 1035

The second I boiled for 20 mins, brought temp back down to 63 and mashed in the rest of the grains for an hour. I again got back to 1050 but doing an iodine test this time showed I had not converted all starches. I made the decision (right or wrong) to add another KG each of malted barley and rye and mash for another hour, teabagging the grain bag

I don't know if it helped convert any of the starches already there or I just got more sugars from the added grains, frankly I did not care anymore, it had been a long day but I did get to 1063

The corn itself has a diastatic power of 25 lintner while the barley and rye come in at 70. I had to convert from the WK ratio and maybe I got that wrong and did not have enough enzymes

In any case, all three mashes smell amazing and while I may not get the yield I was expecting (might need to adjust my expectations) it was fun to do and I can't wait to run it and find out what I made

[FatManDancing]

Thought I would give an update on what is happening with this

The two ferments I did where I brought the corn to a boil just did their thing and fermented dry. Both are ready to run

The one I did not boil was completely different, it went absolutely crazy to the point it spewed through the airlock. I have only soured a UJSSM by adding backset but this one definitely has a lacto infection, the smell contrast is so different

This is in the boiler now, coming to temp for a stripping run. Not sure how to treat this in the final product. Something else to research

[FatManDancing]

I have finally stripped this run. We had a power outage mid way through which complicated things but I had an idea

What would happen if I stripped the backset? Right now I am distilling 0%. I have run a stripping run on lacto infected malted corn mash for the first time and I think it is the best I have ever made right off the still

Surely there is a use for distilled backset. It is kinda bitter but has such a massive corn flavour that it may be used to dilute or flavour a spirit run or proof down


On second thought, maybe just proof down a boiler charge... Dunno


Gonna run the other two mashes tom and try to do a coupla mashes with the 10 kg of corn I have left over. This time though I am gonna use alpha amalyse

[bluc]

Sour mash with the backset I use 25% or water down low wines as you say :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[FatManDancing]

New idea

I am gonna mash directly into the backset. PH may be a problem, don' know exactly how to fix that but I am sure I will find a way

[bluc]

100% backset? I have read on here of people doing 100% rum dunder with added sugar.
I was just thinking of trying 50% backset..

[FatManDancing]

Hi Bluc. I did end up using 100% backset to mash in but by the time I got to sparging the grain had soaked up a lot of it, more than half. I did read after the fact that it does not really work out that well as the backset flavour is too strong

The PH was not as big of a problem as first thought. It measured 4.47 on my meter which was easily corrected by simply adding calcium sulphate and ended up at 4.99

The alpha amylase made a bit of a difference though, I got to 1073

[bluc]

Nice :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Be interested to hear thoughts on flavour after aged.

[FatManDancing]

Have I scorched my run?

I am running two mashes of malted corn on a four inch, four plate glasser

I collected heads and made the transition to hearts cuts but after jar five I started noticing a black ring forming on the bubble plate glass

I started tasting what was coming off the still and it is bitter and unpleasant

I have typed into the Google searchamatron as many variables as I can think of and have not really found an answer but the more I look and taste this stuff I think that is exactly what happened

And that really sucks :sad: :sad: I even went to the shops today to buy a fine mesh sieve to try to ensure no solids ended up in the pot. I even have cheesecloth but thought I would not need it

How likely is it that the yeast would scorch?

One thing I did learn though is I am never milling corn again,,,, and strain your mash better

[RC Al]

Mine tasted like burnt popcorn when I torched some corn mash to the bottom of my boiler with gas (stopped mid run, big mistake)
The black ring is familiar, I suggest a full cleaning, else it will taint the next run a little

[FatManDancing]

Yep, burned popcorn. As soon as I read that RC that is exactly what I smelled. I too had to shut down when a neighbour came over asking for a cork for a wine bottle and we got to talking

Sorry bluc. This run also included the all backset mash. I had high hopes for that mash but it was difficult to get to ferment. I do not think I will try it again


At this stage though, given my knowledge and experience(or lack of) I would have to say malted corn is not worth it. You will be better off treating it as unmalted and as for grinding... wait until there are roadworks in your area and ask the person on the roller to drive over it 30 or 40 times.

Or just do yourself a favour and buy flaked maize

[FatManDancing]

Finally did a spirit run on this stuff

Yeah man, this is good

I had a 25kg bag and did five mashes. Scorched two but stripped three and pot stilled on the spirit run

After heads product came off at exactly 80%. Pretty happy with yield and really looking forward to blending my cuts and getting this stuff on oak

Not sure if malted corn is worth it. It was a pretty big pain trying to mill it and mash it. There is conflicting info out there about the proper way to mash. I found I got the best conversion by mashing at 65 for an hour, bringing to a boil to gelatinize the corn, cooling to mashing temps again and adding the rest of my grain bill

Don't forget the liquid enzyme though

What will be really interesting though is comparing this to just regular corn grits. It is $30 cheaper per 25kg bag and if it produces the same flavour...

....Coincidentally, a 25kg sack was on my front porch when I got home from work.. :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance:

[bluc]

Is it real grassy like people say? I love the grassy fresh raw corn flavours in unoaked 100% corn wash.. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Wellsy]

Where are you getting your corn grits from fatman ?

I have struggled to find anything other than stock feed suppliers who only have the cracked corn