Malted grain question

[Tornado]

Hi Newbie here , A question i have tried to find an answer to but cant seem to see it anywhere
I mistakenly purchased online some grains , I bought kibbled rye which i gather is not malted and i also bought flaked barley which i dont think is malted
My question is in a corn bourbon mash do both the barley and rye have to be malted or can just one of them be malted
Just bought some malted barley and malted rye but wondering if i can use up the the 20kg of the non malted ones i bought or just ditch them
thanks in advance

[Teddysad]

Malted barley has a good diastatic power in that it will convert not only itself but other unmalted grains as well. Depending on the type you will easily get away with a 50/50 mix of malted and unmalted grains. Just watch your mashing temperatures

[wynnum1]

Not all the grain has to be converted so if put kibbled rye in will still add flavour even if does not create alcohol.

[Wellsy]

So it really depends on what you are fermenting and why you are adding the grain mate.
Malted and Unmalted of the same variety will have different flavours.
If you are adding grains to a sugar wash then it is purely for flavouring that the grain is added as you rely on the sugar for alcohol production.
If you are mashing in ( essentially cooking ) the grain to release the natural sugars to produce the alcohol then unmalted has an advantage in that it releases its sugars more easily. It’s a lot more scientific than that but I wanted to give you the simple answer as that is all I know lol
Once you know why the grains are being added the answer will become more apparent

[Tornado]

So it really depends on what you are fermenting and why you are adding the grain mate.
Malted and Unmalted of the same variety will have different flavours.
If you are adding grains to a sugar wash then it is purely for flavouring that the grain is added as you rely on the sugar for alcohol production.
If you are mashing in ( essentially cooking ) the grain to release the natural sugars to produce the alcohol then unmalted has an advantage in that it releases its sugars more easily. It’s a lot more scientific than that but I wanted to give you the simple answer as that is all I know lol
Once you know why the grains are being added the answer will become more apparent

Thanks for the replies , I am trying a few different bourbon grain blends just mainly using Flaked corn and then using the other grains to convert to sugar , from what i have read and tried it seems to be working so far . my main concern was i did not know if both the barley and the rye had to be malted or if only one of them could be malted and still convert enough of the sugars
if only one of them is malted do you need to add like alpha amylase or anything just as an example with both barley and rye being the same amount
thanks

[Wellsy]

Sorry mate it sounds very much like you are doing all grain recipes and my only experience with all grain is using angel yeast, which is essentially a shortcut method but hey I am not proud lol.
Plenty on here do all grain so I am sure they will chime in when next online

[bluc]

:text-+1: depends on method of mashing. Traditional you need malt or liquid enzyme. Angel yeast you dont need extra enzyme or malt. The enzyme is in the product and works at room temp.
Malt will change flavour some say its better but you can make a nice drink using all non malted grains/cereals. And you can do it way easier then traditional methods,heating and holding temp,by using angel yeast win win win :D
I am up to about gen 10 with an angel yeast sour mashed burbon style whiskey and am about ready to get some long term aged :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Tornado]

Thanks guys looks like a bit more reading needed, Have not heard of angel yeast before but sounds good

[Wellsy]

Mash not required is the thread name

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13005

[BradM]

You should be fine - the gelatinisation of rye is 65-70C so no need to do anything different to your mash. As Teddysad said, if you have 50% of your mash as malted grain you will be OK - you maybe OK with less as well, it depends on the diastatic power of the malt. Do an iodine test for starch after the hour of mashing and see how you go, you may need longer but if it won't all convert you may need to add some amylase to boost the conversion.