Starting a Microdistillery - TIPS

[Konzo]

So I still consider myself a Newbie, but I have a 3 year plan and that involves starting my own Micro-Distillery. In everyone's experience, what is the minimum equipment I need and the best spots to buy it? Also what is the extra items I "should" purchase as well.

I do eventually want to sell my products, so any advice would be helpful :-)

[Distillnation]

The member 'the Doctor' may be able to provide some insight into this realm and what kind of hoops you will have to jump through to make it all possible.

As for equipment, I would imagine you'll fine some of the best made gear, right here at Aussie Distiller. Mac is the man to talk to in terms of that.

This is a good place to read up on as well:

http://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Excise/I ... ng_a_still

[MacStill]

My first step would be to study the laws and requirements pertaining to acquiring a licence, and the prohibitive costs on getting it.

While you're doing that you should also be considering the type of products you would like to offer for sale, and the laws, requirements and regulations of each product.

I think 3 years would be the minimum to start up unless you had a lazy few hundred k to throw at it, then you're going to want to be able to get returns asap with product that's salable as it comes off the still until your brown spirits have aged for the required amount of time, things like vodkas, gins & infusions would be the place to start.

Good luck with it, and make every move a planned one.... keep the 6 p's in mind ;-)

proper preparation prevents piss poor performance :D

Cheers.

[the Doctor]

Very happy to offer any assistance, Mac has given you sage advice...It is not easy but there again anything worth doing is not going to be... Feel free to make contact via PM or email if I can help. I was in your shoes once.
Doc

[Konzo]

Fantastic guys I really appreciate it. The licencing side etc is fine, that's a bridge I can cross comfortably. The 6 P's is definitely part of my plan, hence the research ;-) I am no rush, I want to get it right the first time.

My biggest concern is the equipment required, so would love people to throw out ideas of what equipment I should be aiming for, so I can draw up a bit of a plan :-)

Dr, I will most definitely PM you soon.

I plan on starting with new barrels, doing bourbon, followed eventually by whisky. In the beginning intend on marketing a vodka type product as you suggest to bring in some income whilst waiting for the good stuff :-)

[the Doctor]

Mate you have a long way to go...But every path worth the following starts with one step.
PM sent.
Doc

[Konzo]

Mate you have a long way to go...But every path worth the following starts with one step.
PM sent.
Doc

Doc as mentioned in my PM you are a true gentleman and a scholar :-)

[db1979]

I have wondered about the licencing requirements of being able to demonstrate skills and experience in distillation. I'm betting the licencing mob won't be too happy if they hear "oh yeah no worries, I've got this illegal still at home that I've been using for the last few years". :laughing-rolling: be like rocking up to get a car licence when you drove yourself there in an unregistered vehicle you made yourself.

Other than industry experience, what other options are there? I'm betting none. :think:

[Kimbo]

Yeah I looked into becoming legal, only coz I recon if the Ex got wind of it, she would dob!
then I figured, if I got in the shit and copped a fine and/or confiscation, its still easier and cheaper to build another still than it is to get the required license. :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[the Doctor]

I have wondered about the licencing requirements of being able to demonstrate skills and experience in distillation. I'm betting the licencing mob won't be too happy if they hear "oh yeah no worries, I've got this illegal still at home that I've been using for the last few years". :laughing-rolling: be like rocking up to get a car licence when you drove yourself there in an unregistered vehicle you made yourself.

Other than industry experience, what other options are there? I'm betting none. :think:

One of the onerous restrictions that Customs and Excise use to control the licensing of distilling is the competency requirement. There is a very simple way around this. If you have worked at a licenced distillery and have been certified a competent distiller they cannot knock you back on this count...for your information I have a batchelor of vocational education and training (Charles Sturt Uni) which is current and I am a licenced distiller with an unlimited licence ( any volume any product ) If anyone needs to be certified. I am willing to help. It is not easy. but truthfully guys it is quite possible to overcome these hurdles. I do not want a rush of tyre kickers...but if it is your dream to distill the industry needs inovative driven people to build craft distilling...I can and will help if possible. The minimum requirement is a short intensive period of shadowing with certification of demonstrated individual skill. Simply you have to complete the whole process from wash to spirit run and be certified as having not killed anyone including yourself in the process. This is a path not for everyone. They make it hard. But it can be done. Never ever say that you distill anywhere but at a licenced distillery, as it will preclude your getting a licence.
Doc

[db1979]

Great info... Maybe one day when I'm out of debt... :crying-blue:

[markus]

I must admit I'm a bit of a dreamer and would love to be running a micro distillery business one day too.
Although it would be many years away for me, I can't even imagine the cost. even ball park figures of what it would be just to get past the legal bullshit.
Then again how many bottles of spirit you would need to sell a day or week to make a living. How many litres of wash you need to get that amount spirit and so on.
At the end of the day it's a business.
But it can be done
For now ill just keep dreaming. 8-}

[the Doctor]

You keep that dream alive Marcus... but take some advice, never give your application to a lawyer to handle...you will not come out of the experience with the shirt on your back. Getting a licence is not that expensive...but use a lawyer and you will be reamed for every last cent. The application process is all online at the ATO so get online and do your research. It is all there, the licence itself is resonably cheap.... There are many myths associated with licensing. but really it just takes 1. a clean legal record, 2. persistance, 3. enough money to open the doors and survive your first year.
The cost can be managable. I started with a 4 inch 6 plate still...now Mac sells those right here and they are not expensive and can be expanded and act as your stripper. The only problem is that with a four inch the flow rate is low, so if you could afford a 6 or better still a 8 inch then happy days. Ferment in a food grade 1000 liter IBC and you will have vodka to sell withing your first 3 weeks...but be warned nobody buys vodka. they want something special so what does sell is flavoured vodkas. My orange blossom vodka outsells straight vodka 60 bottles to 1. Mac sells world class gear, he has over the last 6 months become my principle supplier of Distilling equipment. the commercial potential of modular equipment is enormous. It is worth following that dream. Life is way too short to not live your passion. If I can be of help anytime you know where the PM button is. Take care.
Doc

[crow]

Love reading threads like this and to be honest the idea has crossed my mind many times over the last 25+ yrs . There are not many whiskey distilleries in Oz but there many producing brandy and vodka. I have one just up the track from me . I think one of the things important to take into consideration is your marketing angle you wish to pursue and that should give a good idea of the best products to start with

[the Doctor]

Love reading threads like this and to be honest the idea has crossed my mind many times over the last 25+ yrs . There are not many whiskey distilleries in Oz but there many producing brandy and vodka. I have one just up the track from me . I think one of the things important to take into consideration is your marketing angle you wish to pursue and that should give a good idea of the best products to start with

You are bang on there Crow... to be succesful you must pre - visualise what is you want to be. Do you want to be a bulk wholesaler or a craft niche producer. Like distilling itself dont start until you know what you want to produce. Then marketing..." You only get one chance at a first impression"...don't blow it. you need to know how you want to be percieved. The npromote like fury to "your" market.... We chose the niche market as it has the highest return for the modest budget we had...but most importantly we created our own niche by being quirky, arty and a bit out there. You will notice on our advertising it always says " Not for Everyone". we tried to build a dedicated group of followers who are very faithful. The model for our style was Hendricks gin, have a look at their website. It is a beautiful example of brand building and creating a singular and exclusive market. Brilliant. The best product to start with is the one you can get to market...which tends to dictate that it be Vodka and Gin... but our biggest seller is a liqueur called Le Caf which is maple syrup and italian espresso. It is products like that which buy you the time to develop you whiskeys, bourbons, rums etc. So sage words Crow, I think you hit the nail on the head mate.
Doc

[Jonno]

Hey doc,

Just from a setting up point of view mate.

What sort of area do you use for your distillery. What are the legal requirements? Dont have to answer if there's a legal issue, i'm just being lazy and not having a read, im sure the info could be found somewhere on the internets. Just good information to know

Cheers mate

[the Doctor]

Never a problem Jonno...you do not need a lt of space for the actual distilling...we have a huge hanger but we also make 9 wines and brew 8 different beers so have to accomodate a lot. Security is a big issue as you have to assure the powers that be that your "bond" store is very very secure as if you are ever robbed you still have to pay the excise! and you will find it hard to get an insurance company who will take the risk on insuring excise. All ageing and storage has to be under lock and key. These requirements do push up the floorspace you will need which is why many of the bigger distilleries have very high stackable storage racks. Also you will need a tasting bar and at least a tasting license from Liquer and Gaming. I wiould urge anyone thinking of taking this path to have their own tasting venue, as the wholesale returns are not as good as the retail...the profit margin generally can be worked out as 1/3 of the bottle price is excise and total cost of manufacture. 1/3 profit, 1/3 to the retailer...So basically if you can sell as much as possible you are well ahead. It sounds like a high profit but out of that return you have to pay for rent, outgoings such as electricity ( very expensive) staff, decor etc etc. so wholesale really eats away at your return. If I live to 103 years old I will probably break even...but what price a life well lived...you will make a good living but unless you want to work much harder than I do... you will never be Bill Gates. Take care.
Doc

[kiwikeg]

Would buying excise paid neutral ethanol and redistilling/flavoring it be an option? Maybe just as a starting point?

[the Doctor]

Would buying excise paid neutral ethanol and redistilling/flavoring it be an option? Maybe just as a starting point?

You still need the licence, but neutral is an option...Tarac sell it in Australia. but I always thought it cheating...We sell it as our product, so i figure it should be. But many others do it. Not being judgemental as I can see that it would be a way in...But the minimum buy is 1000 liters of azeotrope. The excise on that amount is $78,000.oo so while it is cheap by the liter. If business is slow you are siitting on a very big, very explosive, very flammable....mortgage!
Doc

[markus]

Some great advice there Doc thankyou.
Very generous.

Cheers Markus