Another "I give up, how do I do this?" thread

[busman]

Hi guys,

For your amusement and entertainment, may I present the latest installment of "I'm a useless twat and don't know how to do anything, please help me!" (working title :lol: :lol: )

Todays problem - soldering. How in gods name do you solder two bits of copper to one another when you don't have capillary action at work? The item in question is my liebig:

IMAG0025.jpg

it's a half inch tube inside a one inch tube, at each end of the outer tube is a one inch to half inch reducer, the idea was that I solder the reducers on (that bit was easy) then jam the half inch tube through the middle and solder it at either end to the reducers. Problem number one came up when I was unable to push the inner tube through the reducers due to the shelf-type thing at the base of the small end of the reducer (there, I suppose, because you're not SUPPOSED to be able to push the tube all the way through). So I cut the end bits off, filed the hole in the reducer until the half inch tube was just able to squeeze through it (with some effort, mind, it's not like you can see daylight through the gap or anything, it's pretty tight). Then I tried to solder the inner to the outer. Several times. Nup - solder either just slides straight between the two, or solidifies but won't stick to the copper. "Oh well, stuff it", thinks I, "it's only a water jacket, the product won't be coming into contact with it, I'll just silicon it". Nup, silicon only works for a while then fails (water is some determined shit, if there's an easier way out than the way you had intended, it'll find it...). Next brilliant idea - steel epoxy. Also failed. Next idea - I'll silver braze it. First lot of brazing rods I try are too thick, my Bernzo MAPP torch won't even melt the stuff. Second lot thinner, melt just fine onto the intended area, then solidifies and falls off, again, won't "stick" to the copper. I'm at my wits end, I've wasted so much time, solder, gas, and shouting, I'd have finished the fucking still two weeks ago but I just cannot get this bastard condensor to seal. Oh noble one's, point me to the error of my ways!

[R-sole]

Clean it better. Use steel wool or emery cloth.

[MacStill]

Yeah give it a rub with some steel wool to clean it up, then a bit of flux and some soft solder should do the trick.

Turn the flame down on your mapp torch if you use soft silver solder, too much heat and it'll run and wont stick ;)

[SBB]

As a newbie to condenser construction myself, Id say No1 mistake was cutting the end off ya reducer. Should have left it there and just filed out the inside so that your other pipe would slide right through. As the whole thing is a tight fit it should solder up easily enough. In my self taught opinion its easy to apply way to much heat to smallish stuff with those torches.
When Im working on something a bit tricky like that I like to keep a nice sized blob of flux on the end of my soldering wire. Dunno if it really helps but it seems too.
SBB

[busman]

Thanks guys, I'll give all of the above a go. For the record, I've tried cleaning the area with both coarse and five grit paper, I've tried using flux and not using flux, I've tried soft solder and hard solder, MAPP and propane, and haven't had any luck with any combinations thereof. I didn't really want to cut the ends off the reducers, I tried filing them out first, I dunno, maybe the ones I had narrowed a little at the base, cause no amount of filing was getting that tube through. If nothing else works maybe I'll just pick up a couple of new reducers, pull the thing apart and start again. My usual experience is though that once I've had a whinge that something doesn't work and then attempt to demonstrate it not working, it will work out straight away so I look like an idiot :lol:

Stay tuned...

[SBB]

I think there are different types of reducers.....The first two that I used for my smaller pot still were a piece of cake to file out with a rat tail file. Took about 2 mins each if that.
The second lot I bought were shockers.....I got stuck into them with my air die grinder with a tungsten tip and it still took me ages to get them cleaned out.....gave up with the file after the first few mins. Might pay to look around at different brands. Problem is that they dont look that different from what I can see. Someone else might be able to point you toward the easier ones to work with.
SBB

[busman]

Update- so I pulled the reducers off the ends, got two new ones and filed them out very carefully so the inner tube would pass through, and then spent half my day yesterday putting it back together. End result - still leaks.

I'm done with this stupid thing. I've got twice as many hours and dollars in it as the rest of the rig put together and it's still fucked. If I send the bits to re-manufacture it to someone who, unlike me, can actually solder shit together properly, would someone be so kind as to build it for me? I will of course pay return postage and re-imburse for any other expenses incurred. Thanks. End whinge :oops:

[MacStill]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Send it up mate, I'll sort it out for you.

;)

[busman]

Legend, thanks McStill :mrgreen:

[crozdog]

busman I realise you've probably got this fixed by now, but others may learn from the following tricks I've learnt with soldering:
- make sure all parts are clean & bright - emery em well
- use a good flux that is compatable with your solder
- ensure the pieces won't move while you're working on em & you have room to move your flame all around the work
- get BOTH parts to the same temp.

Oh the other "trick" is practice 8-)

[busman]

Thanks crozdog, great advice for anyone else having trouble soldering. I've discovered/decided though that soldering is something I'm incredibly shit at, so I'm farming this one out :lol:

[Kimbo]

So what's the knack to using soft solder?
mine just keeps beading on top instead of "bleeding" into the joint :cry:

[SBB]

Kimbo Ive only taught my self to solder recently so am no expert. I have noticed at times that to much heat can cause solder to bead up and not flow. Also keep your job spotlessly clean. I use steel wool. Also make sure the flux you use is compatible with your solder.

[MacStill]

So what's the knack to using soft solder?
mine just keeps beading on top instead of "bleeding" into the joint :cry:

What sized pipe & what type of soldering/brazing torch are you using ?

Could be that your just not getting it hot enough if it's bigger pipe, or over heating on smaller sizes.....

[busman]

I found the solution was to get McStill to do it for me :lol: :lol:

Seriously though... I had the same problem as you, and found that both too much heat AND not enough heat would cause the same problem :shock:

Hence, for the betterment of my mental health and Mrs Busmans shortening patience with me, I retired from soldering :lol: :lol:

[Kimbo]

What sized pipe & what type of soldering/brazing torch are you using ?

100mm pipe,
50mm pipe,
10mm pipe,
mapp gas,
ezi-weld 602 flux,
consolidated alloys' aqua safe 100 solder ;)

[maheel]

So what's the knack to using soft solder?
mine just keeps beading on top instead of "bleeding" into the joint :cry:

i reckon you have to much heat going on

here is what i do, IMO clean joints is the big 1st step for easy soldering

clean insider pipe etc and flux the joints before fitting together
heat up the area of both pipes
apply heat "away" from solder point
touch solder to join and let it "suck" in

if you make a mess, sometimes it's best to stop and re-clean....

[SBB]

You will be pleased to know Ive just joined the "I'm a useless twat and don't know how to solder club" Busman. Soft solder isnt a problem. High silver content hard solder....you gotta be kidding.... not a #%*&# hope....just turned half a stick of the stuff into tiny little balls of silver on the floor :crying-green:
Got the outer tube for the reflux condenser for the Bubbler all cut out n clamped up.....now cant solder the bloody thing up :(

[Sam.]

Step 1. Befriend a plumber.

Step 2. Give plumber lots of good free piss.

Step 3. Get plumber to build you gear.

Step 4. Drink lots of good cheap piss :laughing-rolling: