Heating and Cooling Keg Still

[fields]

Hello All,

I'm thinking of buying a pot still head to go on a keg and maybe a 2" boka, after six or seven runs of my CM still over the last few weeks I think i've already reached its potential.

I'm trying to work out what else I need to buy / build to go with it so I can price things. I've seen other posts about the options for heating a keg still and others elsewhere for cooling, I'm just not sure of how they all fit together in terms of budget and effectiveness.

The two main options that I can see for heating a keg are either:

Gas - 4 Ring Burner from ebay including delivery about $119... should be able to use as wok burner when not stillin; I'm not sure if you need to purchase the stand or if you sit the bottom of the keg directly on the burner.
I've seen mention of using Mongolian or rambo burners but the consensus appears to be negative in the fit or the ability to change the temperature on these.

I've read that you can get about 5 runs out of a 9kg gas bottle, depending on the price (servo the other day was $35 for a swap and go... I think its around $20 at the boating and camping shop... need an autogas filler or someone who does it cheaper) so about $4 in gas a run.

It seems that the cons to this are that stuff can be scorched on the bottom and potentially there is the fire hazard if there are escaping gases
It seems that these are easier to control the heat to just where you want them.

Electric - There are a various elements but most people refer to the
2200w keg heating element for approx $45 + post.

These seem to take longer to heat up than gas and may not provide the optimum temperature control plugged into the keg directly.
You may want to install another element of the same size to decrease the time to temperature and then turn the second element off when it is up to temperature.

Depending on how long a run takes - maybe 5 hours, and the cost of electricity and the ambient temperature with all that combined it may use around 10kwh in total and cost approx $2 per run

The cons seem to be that you have to have a bit capable of drilling one or two holes in the side of the keg;
That you can't use the element for anything else
That you are effectively limited to using only one burner
If it is suspended in the keg you may have issues with scorching on the element itself and cleaning is more difficult
May leak
Less control than the gas for the temperature and energy being used

To get around the limitations of power being used, you can use some sort of voltage controller; This is one area where I'm really confused, I see people making their own and I think that's because the wattage is too high or the commercial units are too expensive - I could not find an answer

So in terms of heating Electric and Gas both have pros and cons, I'm not sure which way to go and who would recommend what I do and the prices involved in each.

The second side of the equation is cooling. I don't like the idea of wasting water and want some sort of recirculation system.
With my CM still, I have a wheelie bin that I have filled with tank water, have a 2000lph pump on it with a tap on the bypass and the main gate and can control the output as desired, the water in the reservoir never feels like it has warmed up much even after a 5 hour run.

What I am unsure of is if I jump to a keg still how much cooling is required and will my current set p be sufficient or cause too many problems? I think from what I have read my current element is 1300W, so if I went to one or two electric elements or gas I may be putting through four times as much energy that will need to be knocked down, I'm sure that four times hotter will need more than a 200L reservoir. Can someone tell me if this assumption is correct?

I have a tank on my house which I think is about 8000L but it is inconveniently located and hard to recirculate water from or back into, so I think that I need some sort of fan radiator or other cooling method incorporated into my loop, I'm not even sure if 2000LPH would be enough for a pot or boka.

If I need some sort of radiator or similar in the setup I'm unsure where to get one from or how much they would cost or what the best method is to plumb it in.

So - if someone can direct me to the best ways to heat and cool the still and what would be appropriate, i'd appreciate it

Thanks

[maheel]

i like the plug and play of electricity, 2200 w, drill hole and install one from craftbrewer.com
i also have an Italian spiral burner i use for all grain beer and it can really throw some heat at a keg
i have a PSR-25 but it's not essential but i do use it.

i prefer the electric keg as i feel it is safer than gas, i once had a still fire using gas.
I don't think there would have been fire if it had been electricity but i may have had a lot of ALC vapor in the air..... maybe more dangerous :?

the pump you have will be fine as long as it has a head height above 3M i reckon so ample water can flow above about 2M

you might need more than 200L to stay really cold in the wheelie bin, depends the starting temp of the water etc.
i think my tank is 1000L but i am lucky it's right beside my workshop... never really changes temp but i could use the pool :)

in the end it boils down to how much you want to invest NOW or later

if you spend a few hundred more NOW you may have most of the best gear you can get right now... or later on you might "upgrade" and have spent more.

it's a challenge to choose, i wish 10 yrs ago i knew a triclamp fitted on a keg with 2'...... i mucked about with crappy boilers for years :(

[wynnum1]

Cheapest seem to be bolt on Electric Hot Water Heater System Element would not be that hard fit .

[Sam.]

+1 for the italian spiral burner I got mine from Beerbelly in Adelaide http://www.beerbelly.com.au/burners.html If you put a high pressure reg on these bad boys you can be boiling 50 Litres in 15 - 20 minutes (depending on start temp) You can also control these very well for output with the proper reg.

And who knows the way things are going with electricity prices gas might be cheaper in the future...... :whistle:

[Nardy]

Wheelie bin is a great idea - cheers for the tip!

I use a 4-ring gas burner for all grain beer brewing, but don't like the idea of a naked flame near my still. At the moment I use a 25L still spirits boiler with electric element for distilling, but plan to upgrade to a 50L keg and use 2 elements (probably pinch the one out of the SS boiler and get a second one for ramping up temp as you mentioned).

[busman]

Hi fields,

I was in the same boat as you a few months ago and was asking all the same questions of myself (and bugging the guys here with them too :lol: ). My decisions, and reasons for them, ended up as:

I was going to buy a HBS still because I'm impatient, temperamental, and generally all thumbs when it comes to fabrication. Despite all that, I decided to build it myself because I figured it would be the only way to get exactly what I wanted, I knew I'd be happier with it at the end of the day because it was something I made myself, and (possibly above all) I'm a massive tightass and figured it'd be cheaper :lol: . (and, unless you keep stuffing it up and buying the same bits over again, it should be. Ask me how I know that :lol: )

Heating - I originally wanted to go electric because it would be safer, I wouldn't need to be constantly getting gas bottles refilled (massive tightass, check :lol: ), and also it would mean I could run the still inside the house (it was the middle of winter at the time and I didn't fancy sitting out in the cold for hours on end :lol: ). I ended up going gas though because it offers almost infinite adjustability, you can see exactly what setting it's on with your very eyes (I don't trust electicity, can't see the shit :lol: ), and it meant I didn't have to drill holes in the keg nor attempt to build a power controller (all thumbs, check :lol: ). I got a 3-ring burner for about $55 from a camping store, the keg sits right on top of it, no need for a stand. Yeah it scorches the bottom a bit, but I don't mind, I wasn't spending that much time admiring the shiny bottom of my keg anyway :lol:

Cooling - I've got a 600L rainwater tank on the side of my place but it has no pump in it, and it's not really conveniently situated for running the still off anyway. I figured it was just more crap to have to buy and then store somewhere when not in use, and according to my last water bill the stuff only costs $2 per 1000L out of the tap anyway, so I just hook the garden hose up to one end and it goes out to the drain when it comes out the other. Sorry folks, I'm no greeny :hand: :lol: I'll take shorter showers to compensate though, how's that? :lol: :lol: Regarding flow rate, 2000L/hr would be massive overkill, for a 2" I reckon you're looking closer to 100-200L/hr (sorry, big range I know, I haven't actually measured it, just a guestimate from running my waste hose into a 20L bucket)

So that's how I ended up with my rig as it is, time again the only thing I'd do differently is build it in 3 or 4 inch instead of 2 :lol:

Cheers

busman

[R-sole]

You can put a coil directly in your wheelie bin.

It's fine for a single run....

Click on the pics to see.

1gonzo3.JPG

1gonzo1.JPG

[fields]

Thanks for the pics and advice, I'm thinking of going electric, am not sure about a voltage controller or cooling yet; may just try and see how my current setup works and then make changes accordingly

[fields]

A lot has happened in a short period of time - I now have a keg and a 2200w element and a 2" boka, ran a spirit run on the weekend with 12L of 80% neutral watered down..

The wheelie bin did get hot over this time - twice I threw out 3 9 L buckets worth and refilled up from the tap, I noticed better product when the coolant temperature was similar... may work on a radiator and fan setup (if i can find a radiator) or a swamp cooler - but definitely would not be necessary for stripping runs if you were only doing one per day

[busman]

Did you end up buying or building your still?

[fields]

one member here offered me a drilled keg and another (through gumtree) I bought a boka from at a very generous price...

I was so impressed with the boka - as a spirit run the worst proof on a 400ml jar was 92% and the best were 96% (measured the next day at room temperature) and i'm sure it could be more consistent with practice

will run as a pot to see how effective that is before I decide if I build or buy a pot (need to buy the tools first and learn how to use them)