Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Discuss safety issues here.

Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Postby Ashley12 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:47 pm

Just wanted to discuss the safety aspect of the instructions that come with the airstill. The instructions state that you don't take any cuts from each run of turbo yeast wash.

Let me just be clear, I wouldn't never run a batch without taking cuts.

I just want to discuss the health risks and safety related to taking no cuts. I'm pretty sure it will give you a raging headache but the question is, would it actually be dangerous?

As a side question regarding methanol. I've been told that sugar washes produce no methanol. is this actually the case? Could other variables lead to a higher amount of methanol being produced such as an increase in temperature? Doubling up the the turbo yeast? Ect. Again I wouldn't do these things I just want to be clear on methanol levels in a sugar wash and what could cause these to be higher than normal?
Ashley12
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:22 am
equipment: Pot still

Re: Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Postby RC Al » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:28 am

The whole Methanol thing is a bit of maybe depends answer.

Like most things, if you look hard enough, you will find papers by people with letters after their name saying yes and others saying no. From what ive seen none of them had a wide enough sample of "home made" spirit to test.

Certain fermenting conditions will cause it, the chemistry of which is pretty complicated and beyond what im willing to re-read and spend many hours making a concise post for.

There are ways to check at home without lab testing, but I havent tried and it involves using a couple of not so safe chemicals so I wont post it here.

The main points of what I have researched is that if its is there, its not going to concentrate in the heads, it most likely will be through the whole run with a concentration in the tails. The practice of cuts with the proven recipes (not made for car fuel turbo) and a nod to cleanliness seems to cover most things of this nature for the "enlightened" home distiller in general. I havent seen any reports of poisonings that wasnt from very shonky practices.

Oh and theres plenty of other possible dangerous chemicals in what we produce, methanol is just easy to spell for the media and the masses
Last edited by RC Al on Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
RC Al
Mentor
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:58 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast Area
equipment: 3 plate 4" glasser
2" Potty

Re: Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Postby PeterC » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:42 pm

Agree with all RC said. From my understanding greater amounts of methanol are made from pectins which you find in the skins of fruit like grapes and plums. There are equally unwanted other compounds. You can usually smell acetone and ethyl acetate coming off in foreshots. The whole turbo yeast thing is a bit of a racket in my view. They sell a thermo-tolerant yeast mixed with nutrients to add to sugar. They also then sell you clearing agents and carbon. Then you buy bottles of essences to make you preferred style of spirit which is only good enough really to use as a mixer. A good business model for a HBS to sell lots of stuff.

For relatively clean simple process it is hard to beat a TPW wash. It settles out with a bit of time so you don't need to clear it and you don't really need carbon if you do cuts and everything is available at the supermarket. (Well maybe, along with toilet paper, meat etc.)

Cheers.
PeterC
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Perth WA
equipment: An 18gall. (80L) keg boiler. A 50L Keg boiler. A 4 plate, 4 inch glass column, 500mm packed section Carter head. A 1.8L all copper micro still for small batches of Gin. Plus other bits.

Re: Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Postby bluc » Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:29 pm

RC Al wrote:The whole Methanol thing is a bit of maybe depends answer.

Like most things, if you look hard enough, you will find papers by people with letters after their name saying yes and others saying no. From what ive seen none of them had a wide enough sample of "home made" spirit to test.

Certain fermenting conditions will cause it, the chemistry of which is pretty complicated and beyond what im willing to re-read and spend many hours making a concise post for.

There are ways to check at home without lab testing, but I havent tried and it involves using a couple of not so safe chemicals so I wont post it here.

The main points of what I have researched is that if its is there, its not going to concentrate in the heads, it most likely will be through the whole run with a concentration in the tails. The practice of cuts with the proven recipes (not made for car fuel turbo) and a nod to cleanliness seems to cover most things of this nature for the "enlightened" home distiller in general. I havent seen any reports of poisonings that wasnt from very shonky practices.

Oh and theres plenty of other possible dangerous chemicals in what we produce, methanol is just easy to spell for the media and the masses

The whole methanol in tails theory. Is this backed by spectograph data or is it just theory :think:
bluc
Site Donor
 
Posts: 8377
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:47 pm
Location: sunshine coast
equipment: 2" pot with 2" shotty 400mm long 5x 1/2" on a t500 boiler.
50l keg boiler 4" still mount 4" sight glass 1" drain..
4 plate 4" bubbler, 600mm packed section

Re: Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Postby RC Al » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:26 pm

Spectagraph.. a link to it is on HD somewhere
RC Al
Mentor
 
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:58 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast Area
equipment: 3 plate 4" glasser
2" Potty

Re: Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Postby bluc » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:46 pm

I will try track it down but i bet it will be above my brain capacity :laughing-rolling:
bluc
Site Donor
 
Posts: 8377
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:47 pm
Location: sunshine coast
equipment: 2" pot with 2" shotty 400mm long 5x 1/2" on a t500 boiler.
50l keg boiler 4" still mount 4" sight glass 1" drain..
4 plate 4" bubbler, 600mm packed section

Re: Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Postby PeterC » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:09 am

PeterC
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:20 am
Location: Perth WA
equipment: An 18gall. (80L) keg boiler. A 50L Keg boiler. A 4 plate, 4 inch glass column, 500mm packed section Carter head. A 1.8L all copper micro still for small batches of Gin. Plus other bits.

Re: Still spirits "take no cuts" airstill instructions?

Postby renedox » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:18 am

Does this mean continually storing tails for all an all feints run concentrates the methanol?
renedox
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:29 pm
equipment: Air still


Return to Safety Discussion



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

x