Over Oaking in commercial singlemalts

by **fattypatty** » Thu May 23, 2013 10:50 pm

I love single malt scotch whisky and have long been dreaming of playing distiller. I think it would be lots of fun to have a barrel of my own and gradually taste the change that takes place. One question I cant seem to find the answer to is if so many people worry about over oaking whisky how can some of the largest distilleries sell 50yo whiskys for $30,000?

I dont have $30,000 to spend on whisky (hence my desire to do it myself) and so have never tasted something this old but i have had a 21yo glenfiddich that i wouldn't have said it had an astringent palate.

by **Sam.** » Fri May 24, 2013 1:24 am

Get yourself an all grain recipe that no one in the last forever has thought of then distill it.

then get a 600L Barrel and age it for 50 years and let me know how it turns out.

by **fattypatty** » Fri May 24, 2013 7:57 am

My plan was an all grain recipe, distill, 25L barrel.
In my head it would just sit there like a port barrel and i could grab some as i please...
I doubt i would ever have the constraint to have anything sitting in a barrel for 50 yrs without finishing it, my question is would something that old actually taste good or would it be like licking an oak stave?

by **bt1** » Fri May 24, 2013 8:10 am

Howdy,

Used barrels generally are just that the previous occupant has chewed out some of the flavour but consider a bourbon style or scotch maker seeks out these barrels specifically given the 4 + years they would age for. They know the end result age+barrel type= end result in taste.

Ex port barrel could be a bit harsh...i.e. Jameson's use ex port and sherry and bourbon barrels. The port barrel stuff is blended around 30% as its really distinct and adds colour.
The risk I'd see is it all ends up tasting like a port.

I can say a 2yr UJSM is gold...real gold!

If you used strips you'd be wanting to reduce timber after the first two months to perhaps around 1 strip 20cm x 2cm x 6mm char per 5lt or less for a real long termer.
Pre soaked strips add a very different note

Bang one together, pop at the back of the shed after initial 4 months(reduce timber, final abv corrections for ageing) see how you go.

bt1

by **kingy** » Fri May 24, 2013 8:12 am

Not to sure on bourbon but I have an oak port barrel 20litres. It's only a few years old I drink from it and top up when needed. I think it tastes better then grandfather port. As do many others.

I also want to get a 20litre keg to fill with bourbon and drink from that as well.
I reckon it would be delicious.

But I probly would stick the first initial batch in untill I had enough to fill it a second time.

Then bottle the lot and fill her up again. And drink and top up as needed.

by **Brendan** » Fri May 24, 2013 12:51 pm

I have a 25L barrel mate, and am looking at aging for 2 years...but you wouldn't be going past about 5 years at that size.

As Sam said, you start talking about 30-50 years, and you start talking about 500L+ barrels...less oak contact and more time to mellow/soften...

by **Sam.** » Fri May 24, 2013 1:01 pm

Brendan wrote:I have a 25L barrel mate, and am looking at aging for 2 years...but you wouldn't be going past about 5 years at that size.

As Sam said, you start talking about 30-50 years, and you start talking about 500L+ barrels...less oak contact and more time to mellow/soften...

Yep thats what I was getting at, there is a lot less surface area in contact with the spirit with the bigger barrels that the big guys use.

I don't think they could ever "over" oak in them, it just gets smoother and more complex with time :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Haven't really heard of anyone over oaking in a small barrel either really, I guess it could happen though.

Most of the time it gets over oaked from adding too many staves/chips/dominos etc into the spirit ;-)

by **Brendan** » Fri May 24, 2013 2:36 pm

I know everybody does it, but I still have trouble with getting my head around the fact that aging in a sealed glass container is going to give me something acceptable...I mean yes there's oak contact, so that imparts, and some slight filtering of the charcoal on the oak holding onto compounds...but there's absolutely no evaporation, which is a key component of barrel ageing... :think:

by **SBB** » Fri May 24, 2013 3:33 pm

Not sure if its correct but I read somewhere that large barrels of Scotch or Brandy, I forget which, loose 1/3 or more to the angels when aged for 20 +years.
That's one of the reasons older aged spirits cost so much more, the distillery looses a heap of spirit aging that long and needs to recoup the loss for it to be economical.

by **Brendan** » Fri May 24, 2013 3:58 pm

SBB wrote:Not sure if its correct but I read somewhere that large barrels of Scotch or Brandy, I forget which, loose 1/3 or more to the angels when aged for 20 +years.
That's one of the reasons older aged spirits cost so much more, the distillery looses a heap of spirit aging that long and needs to recoup the loss for it to be economical.

Yeah that too, but also because of that it becomes rare so supply and demand kicks the price up.