Oaking Technique Thread

Discuss everything about oaking and aging here

Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby dogbreath vodka » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:21 am

Johnny B Shiney wrote:I will weigh some raw and then weigh after toasting and charring and report back.
Sounds like a good idea, will be interested to see the difference. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I intend to toast at 200 celcius for 2 hours in the oven (wrapped in alfoil) and then char by holding them with tongs over a gas burner, until black, 10 grams per litre at 65%. (BWKO) Can anyone see any stuff ups with that?



Did mine in a Webber using heat beads. Possibly at around 175 deg C so 200 should be on the money. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Worked out well.
The only ones I had trouble with was some others I did with a gas torch.
DBV
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby benpandaae86 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:04 am

Ok im a noob at this and ive learnt a lot of things in the last week but any way

I have 2 demis down with 4l @ 40% 100g bags (25g/1l) in them with hbs bought chips one is the tenn bourbon and the other gobblers they claim to be chips from JD and wild turkey barrels ive left them for a month and know im drinking tbem and they are quite smooth and yummy

Noob q why 60% - 65%
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby bt1 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:17 am

60 -65% abv because at that rate the alcohol pull the best flavour profile from the timbers. Clearly timber type char or toast level impact on this as well.

There's a timber chart about that graphically shows you what abv produces what flavour profiles.

25gm/1lt is high and it will turn fast so I'd be keeping an eye on it and tasting it regularly with a view to reducing timber to avoid a longer term wood soup.
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby Muppet » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:19 am

The short answer is at different abv's the alcohol will pull different flavors from the oak.
This thread I found handy viewtopic.php?f=30&t=258&hilit=Kiwistiller+oak
Its old and leads elsewhere but its good info
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby CaptainRedBeard » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:25 am

I've read that it's also due to the water content of your spirit. Water will soak into wood more easily than alcohol, so if you use a lower abv. The water content will be infusing into the timber more so than the alcohol.
-CRB
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby Sam. » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:35 pm

CaptainRedBeard wrote:I've read that it's also due to the water content of your spirit. Water will soak into wood more easily than alcohol, so if you use a lower abv. The water content will be infusing into the timber more so than the alcohol.
-CRB


Where did you read that? :think:
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby CaptainRedBeard » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:53 pm

Sam. wrote:Where did you read that? :think:

I was reading up on beer brewing, and came across a thread on aging beer in Oak barrels(it raises abv. In beer apparently) on a website called beeradvocate.com
one member posted this during a somewhat heated debate:
"Did it ever cross your mind that maybe I did do some research (on the last thread about this), and that the rate through wood is less for alcohol than water? Unless the spirits are over 80% then the ABV goes down as more alcohol is diffusing through the wood compared to the water, less ABV and it goes up. Don't know the exact rates of water vs. various alcohols. What does your references or data say?

Here is a quote. Source ishttp://www.distilling.com/PDF/chapter4.pdf
"At 55 to 65% abv, barrels were found to have a greater porosity for water, with the fusel
alcohols, acids, esters, aldehydes, and furfural being retained. Further studies confirmed
that these lower strengths result in an increase in alcohol content after aging, whereas a
decrease in strength is found when spirits are aged at higher alcohol concentrations."

Unfortunately the PDF directory no longer works to substantiate the comment, and they are talking beer opposed to spirits...
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby Johnny B Shiney » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:30 pm

just to confuse the issue heres some comparison of weight pics.
3 pieces about 130mm long by about 25mmsquare, weighed 171g raw,152g after toasting and 120g after charring.
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby Johnny B Shiney » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:38 pm

Now over on home distiller the yanks reckon a piece of oak with surface area of 22 square inches ie. 5 inches long by 1inch square per litre of spirit, so i found abit,,,, but this size weighs 58 grams which is way too much for our 10 grams per litre, so fucked if i know.

It looks bigger in pic because the tape measure is lower than the oak, but this piece is exacly 5 inches by 1 inch square....anyway,,i charred it only (no toast) and chucked in a litre too see how it would go.
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby sp0rk » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:17 pm

speaking of oak, how are people cutting the Roll Out The Barrel offcuts?
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby Urrazeb » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:50 pm

10gm per litre is way under for my taste. I use 2 or 3 of these dominos per litre, haven't over oaked using that much, 5+ and your gonna damage the spirit IMO
oak.jpg


I have some 65% rum from the pot and is a bit over 18months, there is about 500ml in the bottle and about 3 dominoes :shock:

When my mates take a whiff it's more like :scared-eek: :music-deathmetal: :dance: be fucked if they ever get a swig though :laughing-rolling:

This works for me and it definitely is subjective but not exactly a rule to go by IMHO
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby colsmename » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:26 pm

I have found (accidentally,----long story), that getting the hearts straight off the still into a demijon while a little warm,with 3 or 4 sticks gets the colour coming out fairly quick, and after a week or so (depending on colour) I take the oak out and adjust abv from there.
It has worked on the last couple of batches......

I also asked on here about different timbers last year, and after some research on toxicity I came to the conclusion that fruit trees should be ok for aging spirits as long as they were dried and toasted. I did try some timber from my Mango tree, BUT, even though it gave ok colour, it gives the spirit a rather bitter after taste.

I'll only use oak now as it's a pain in the butt to have to restill what should have been a good whiskey, the only good thing I learned out of that was, a triple stilled mac whiskey is a bloody good drop :happy-partydance:
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Charing and Toasting

Postby WTDist » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:39 pm

Just toasted some oak from roll out the barre on the bbql again. pretty sure i smoked out the whole neighbourhood. :teasing-tease: even made its way inside where the missus was complaining :laughing-rolling:
Normally i do this during the day and dont notice the smoke but it was very easy to spot under the fluros tonight. even a cieling fan couldnt disperse it quick enough.

good end product though :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby choppy » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:37 am

Is this the best place to ask about barrel ageing?

Ah well, here goes anyway.

I've read a bit on this site from people who are drinking whiskey/rum etc from their barrels, and I'd like to give it a go.

This is what I have learnt from my readings;

1. forget feeBay, Gumtree etc. and go straight to a cooperage (ROTB for e.g.)
2. I've seen comments that under 5 litres is not worth it and bigger than 25 litres takes a lot booze to fill, so I was thinking 10 litres might be a good place to start
3. Ageing should be done at 65%
4. Rum needs 12 months to smooth out
5. Have a test every once in a while to track its progress.

What I haven't been able to work out is how full do the barrels need to be? If I get a 10 litre barrel do I put 8, 9 or 10 litres in?
Should they be filled in one go. That is, should I do a number of spirit runs and store in a Corny keg until I have enough to fill the barrel, or can I top the barrel up each time I do a run until it is full?
How long would a CFW or MacWhiskey need to stay in a barrel to reach its full potential? I suppose this is a personal preference??

I'll probably start with rum, as I have 5 gens of low wines waiting to run, but I will get 2 barrels and fill the other with whiskey.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Choppy
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Re: Charing and Toasting

Postby Andy » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:49 am

we might need a thread called
"why is the misses complaining" :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby stretch69 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:25 pm

Urrazeb wrote:You should run over it with a blowtorch, I understand that it should never catch fire? :?


Is this correct? , If so I've been screwing up
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby skurvy84 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:17 pm

Who you purchased your oak through: purchased from local hbs
Type of oak: ss bourbon staves american oak lightly toasted
What was previously in the barrel:bourbon im assuming
Grams of oak per liter:website states to use 100grams per 1125ml of neutral for 3-5 days but I ignored that since I work a 2&1 roster
Oak treatment prior to aging, toast/char?twas charred lightly on one side
Aging ABV %,85%abv
Amount of time on:14-17 days
The spirit your are aging:tpw neutral

All in all im very happy with how it turned out. 500mls at 85%abv for 14-17 days seemed like almost perfect combo for myself. Nice color, nice aroma definitely mellowed out the neutral and for me takes away alot of that initial harshness if that makes any sense to you guys.

Since I had a 200gram bag of the stuff I also tried my hand at the nuclear aging/hot cold cycling and although i did end up with a nice oaked neutral it in no way compares to how good the other was. The aroma was not as strong, not as smooth, color definitely lighter and the harshness was still there.

Obviously all cut to 40%abv for tasting and sneaking a bottle onto site for a shift change.

Since I live in a semi wine region with a few cooperages in the area will now be looking into buying fresh and aged staves if they will sell them.

Great thread and very helpful.

Now a question, since I was unsure I used an essence in conjunction with the oaked neutral, is that the done thing? Or should I be doing something else with the oaked neutral?

Cheers
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby WTDist » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:40 pm

skurvy84 wrote:
Now a question, since I was unsure I used an essence in conjunction with the oaked neutral, is that the done thing? Or should I be doing something else with the oaked neutral?

Cheers


I like to use scrub turkey from edwards essence with my oak from roll out the barrel. best ive used so far althougj im hanging to make a pot head for my boiler. nuetral on oak alone i imagine wouldnt be nice. I age between 65 to 75% and loose maybe 5% over time with airing
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby flamehawk » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:51 pm

Started using oak from roll out the barrel.

First lot I tried i did not do anything to. Chopped a bit up and popped it in and it took for ever to color up

Next lot i put in the oven and charred. that makes a world of difference as it starts leaching out the colour in hours.

big difference in taste. I like both
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Re: Oaking Technique Thread

Postby dogbreath vodka » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:03 am

skurvy84 wrote:Who you purchased your oak through: purchased from local hbs
The oak staves/dominoes are the best. ;-)

Type of oak: ss bourbon staves american oak lightly toasted
You could use French Red Oak or American White oak

What was previously in the barrel:bourbon im assuming
This question is about adding flavour from a red wine if you are ageing in an oak barrel

Grams of oak per liter:website states to use 100grams per 1125ml of neutral for 3-5 days but I ignored that since I work a 2&1 roster
Over oaking is very easy to do. Less oak over a longer time is better,though some will disagree.

Oak treatment prior to aging, toast/char?twas charred lightly on one side
The char will give different flavours from a light toast to a dark char

Aging ABV %,85%abv
Most age between 60-65%. It brings out some nice flavours. 63% is said to be the sweet spot.

Amount of time on:14-17 days
Depending on what you are aging in and how many litres is could be months to years

The spirit your are aging:tpw neutral
You will get a decent product out of most washes but something on grain or an UJ would be a better choice. All grain would be even better. TPW is better suited for neutrals

All in all im very happy with how it turned out. 500mls at 85%abv for 14-17 days seemed like almost perfect combo for myself. Nice color, nice aroma definitely mellowed out the neutral and for me takes away alot of that initial harshness if that makes any sense to you guys.
Longer ageing on less wood will give you an even better result. The experimenting is half the fun.... waiting isn't :cry:
Since I had a 200gram bag of the stuff I also tried my hand at the nuclear aging/hot cold cycling and although i did end up with a nice oaked neutral it in no way compares to how good the other was. The aroma was not as strong, not as smooth, color definitely lighter and the harshness was still there.

Obviously all cut to 40%abv for tasting and sneaking a bottle onto site for a shift change.

Since I live in a semi wine region with a few cooperages in the area will now be looking into buying fresh and aged staves if they will sell them.

Great thread and very helpful.

Now a question, since I was unsure I used an essence in conjunction with the oaked neutral, is that the done thing? Or should I be doing something else with the oaked neutral?
Never tried adding anything to the neutral except dominoes for a whisky flavour. It's your booze, why not experiment? :-D
Cheers


All the best with your experimenting and keep us in the loop with the results. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
I've had decent results with 6 toasted dominoes in 20ltrs of 65% aged for a 12+ months using a 23ltr s/steel keg.
The neutral was made from a UJ sugar head. Distilled through a reflux.
It won't give you the complexity of an all grain, but the results are still very nice.
DBV
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