Mac's Bourbon Whiskey Knock Off (BWKO) Discussion

[cdbrown]

It slows down after a few gens. that's the ph from the backset.
It already has a massive yeast bed in there, adding more will do nothing.

If you are really held up the answer is to put another wash on so you have two going.

Now that's just being too sensible. If I started a new batch I'd be back to 1st gen again, but it would give me the chance to replace the barley with malted barley (50% corn, 25% wheat, 25% marris otter pale malt). I do have some unhopped malt extract cans - could I use them? Maybe I should start a new thread....

One thing with gens that has me confused (well I'm sure there's more than 1...) McStill talks of only going to about to 7-8th gen, yet I've seen posts about people having gens multiple times more than that - how is that possible? Or are they talking of a different kind of wash? Replacing more corn/wheat/barley with each wash?

[Rumdrinker]

What would be the most common, effective & easily sourced product to use to raise PH in wash?

[R-sole]

Less backset

[Brendan]

I have heard calcium carbonate??...there is an issue with getting the ammonia or "blue distillate" problem though if used incorrectly...

[Rumdrinker]

Less backset

I haven't had an issue with the bourbon knock off but I only use 15-20% backset anyway & am only up to 5th gen now but did have an issue with a full molasses rum wash on about the 4th generation which I sorted with some calcium carbonate & pitching a new yeast starter.
Just thought there might be something to add in moderation to keep the PH at the sweet spot

[crow]

ok now if someone was to get a ph tester is there a chart for the best level different yeasts or would this be a trial and error thing

[cdbrown]

Baking soda (NaHCO3) and Chalk (CaCO3) both raise the pH

Gypsum (CaSO4), Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) and Epsom Salts (MgSO4) all lower the pH

I have a digital pH meter which I've used to measure mash pH. I'll try to remember to measure the pH before I strip run the 3rd gen, the backset after the run and then the 4th gen wash.

[Rumdrinker]

Baking soda (NaHCO3) and Chalk (CaCO3) both raise the pH

Is baking soda ok to use in the wash to raise the PH, as in it won't create any side effects to the wash?

I have a digital pH meter which I've used to measure mash pH. I'll try to remember to measure the pH before I strip run the 3rd gen, the backset after the run and then the 4th gen wash.

I'll do the same with my 5th gen & post the results here.
Cheers

[SBB]

Maybe someone has already given you this advice. But I found that reducing your backset to %20 will help for faster ferment times. Ive never had a UJ wash finish in under 7 days,,,,and mostly mine take longer than that. It really shouldnt be nessesary to add more yeast, but probably wont hurt anything if you do.

[Rumdrinker]

Hi SBB,
I already keep the backset to less than 20% & I'm not concerned with long ferment times, just want to find the sweet spot so I can continue running consecutive generations.
I usually give my wash 2-3 weeks before running it to ensure its fully fermented & has a bit of time to settle.
If there is an ideal PH for specific wash then I would like to monitor & adjust it so it's within the ideal range.
Cheers

[cdbrown]

I'm just impatient at the moment considering it's my first crack at distilling and was hoping to do a strip run each week then on the 6th do a spirit run. Decided to get the other fermenter into action for a malt based wash so my impatience will reduce a little.

I try to stick to 20% backset, but maybe I'm not calculating it right. Is 20% based on the entire wash volume (25L) or the volume you are replacing (16L)? As that's 5L backset compared to 3.2L.

[Rumdrinker]

I try to stick to 20% backset, but maybe I'm not calculating it right. Is 20% based on the entire wash volume (25L) or the volume you are replacing (16L)? As that's 5L backset compared to 3.2L.[/quote]

I hope it's based on the entire wash as that's what I base it on.........

[Kimbo]

I use 5L of backset to dissolve 5 Kg of sugar, add back to the fermenter and top up to 25L ;-)

[Rumdrinker]

Stripped my 5th gen wash & put down the 6th gen. Tested the PH: 5th gen wash PH 3.5, backset of stripped 5th gen PH3.3, 6th gen wash PH3.5.
I'm a bit concerned with the PH level of the 6th gen wash but it started fermenting after a few hours & is happily chugging away

[bt1]

Yeh pH too low for my liking. i alway correct to hit 5.0 or as close as i can get it.

Wash pH is the second most important factor in yeast productivty=yield after acurate heating followed closely by yeast nutrition.

You may want to consider getting bicarb salts either chalk type or baking soda to re correct future washes. When u add allow time for chem reaction to complete before retesting.

The guru's (Microbioligists)say there's no wrong time to correct pH but it's optimal prior to pitching.

If you consider correcting do it extremely slowly over days not hours. Yeast shock is a real killer of active yeast cells and any change should be done slowly.
If your regenerating yeast for future brew this is well worth the effort as it impact cells for next gen. For one use type yeasts bakers or bulk food types there's little point in such a small wash volumes we use.

bt1

[Rumdrinker]

Cheers BT1, only reason I haven't attempted to raise the PH on this wash is its on it's 6th generation & I don't want to stuff it with the wrong product as I don't have any more calcium carbonate. Think I'll give it a go by adding small amounts of baking soda over a few days & see how it goes.

[R-sole]

So long as it don't give you the blues :))


I wouldn't be fucking with it myself.

[Rumdrinker]

It looked too happy in the ferment so I left it alone, hopefully it goes the distance & I'll adjust the PH of the backset for the 7th gen

[SBB]

What 5Star said.
If your that worried about the PH cut back even further on the backset for a gen or two.....you should see an improvement.

[bt1]

Sour mash does not mean acidic. The reason for adding backset as a sour mashing method is to lower pH to a level the yeast can effectively work at.

Backset is typically 5.4 - 5.8pH is rises somewhat after boiling c/f wash itself.

To quote the master of brewing John Palmer " Sour Mash only serves to create the right pH value for the yeasts to work well. The rest of the Sour Mash story is marketing." i.e. it does not mean acidic at 3.5 pH.

For fruits and molasses a lower value is ideal around 4.5 primarily to reduce infection risks I might add and does nothing for the yeast itself.

In a reasonably sterile inverted sugar wash, sour just means not close to netural. Agree values higher than 5.5 could produce the blue distillate problems, although I've never seen it.

Being a yeast fanatic ie focused on taste, wheras most here are equipment focused, I'd be very keen to hear from ppl who actually monitor pH with a good recently calibrated meter.

It just removes one more area of guess~ment.

bt1