Aussiedistiller, Home Distilling, Moonshine, Home Brew

My son has been into making sour dough bread lately. Good stuff. He had his culture In my fridge and it got me thinking. Pintoshine had a write up / post on a different web site about sour mash using lacto bacillus instead of Backset.

Long story short I used some sour dough culture to sour cracked corn. It is in a batch that is cooling down from mashing temperature as I write this.

I soured the cracked corn four days, boiled it and did the rest of my recipe and mash as usual. Looking forward to see how this turns out. Never did read the results of Pintoshines attempt so this is another experimental run. Definitely adds a different flavour to the mash.

Will have to steam strip this one. Unfortunately my new BIAB bag blew a seam today! Sad face!

Interesting concept but I would have thought you might as well just use vinegar to drop the PH :laughing-rolling:

I was under the assumption the point of the backset was not only to keep the PH low hence the "sour mash" but also impart that flavour into the next batch then the next stage is dunder pits etc.

Hopefully your mash temp has nuked the Lacto because if it ends up in the wash it will end up as vinegar eventually and fuck all yield.

Sam. wrote:Interesting concept but I would have thought you might as well just use vinegar to drop the PH :laughing-rolling:

I was under the assumption the point of the backset was not only to keep the PH low hence the "sour mash" but also impart that flavour into the next batch then the next stage is dunder pits etc.

Hopefully your mash temp has nuked the Lacto because if it ends up in the wash it will end up as vinegar eventually and fuck all yield.

Funny guy :oops:

Yeah. Won’t likely try this again. Ended up in the middle of a massive heat wave that messed with the ferment. I’m not sure anything survived that!

Only lacto soured the cracked corn. Stripped it just haven’t had time to do a spirit run.

will still be interested to hear how it turns out :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Sam. wrote:will still be interested to hear how it turns out :handgestures-thumbupleft:

So am I. Saved some Backset for next ferment as well. Will use it if the spirit run produces a drink

Lactobacillus(major component of sourdough) dont make vingar will produce lactic acid though.
Acetic acid is vinegar produced by aceto bacteria.
Interestingly jamican rum uses it as a component in their pits..

bluc wrote:Lactobacillus(major component of sourdough) dont make vingar will produce lactic acid though.
Acetic acid is vinegar produced by aceto bacteria.
Interestingly jamican rum uses it as a component in their pits..

When fermentation was complete it tasted sweet. Wasn’t expecting that because the spec gravity was less than 1,0

The premise of the lacto is that it gives a different flavor profile to the final product. It was real different at the end of ferment.

Not sure this batch will be a fair assessment of the idea because of the high temperature during fermentation. Heat wave is over for now but we are choking on smoke.

Just about all sour mashs contain a % of lacto. A high pitch rate will out compete it. Lacto eats sugar aceto eats alcohol..

Lacto will out compete most unwanted bacteria and drop ph to a level where other types of bacteria cannot survive. Another one of the main reasons sour mashing is done especially in open top fermenters..

If you under pitch or you dont have enough buffering capability in your mash(sugarheads especially) ph can crash 3-3.5ph even lower and wash can stall. Pitch a healty yeast amount or stir well to get old yeast up into suspension and aerate.

Not usually an issue with on the grain all grain mashs.

bluc wrote:Just about all sour mashs contain a % of lacto. A high pitch rate will out compete it. Lacto eats sugar aceto eats alcohol..

Lacto will out compete most unwanted bacteria and drop ph to a level where other types of bacteria cannot survive. Another one of the main reasons sour mashing is done especially in open top fermenters..

If you under pitch or you dont have enough buffering capability in your mash(sugarheads especially) ph can crash 3-3.5ph even lower and wash can stall. Pitch a healty yeast amount or stir well to get old yeast up into suspension and aerate.

Not usually an issue with on the grain all grain mashs.

That's a much better explanation :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Either way I don't like lacto in anything I make as all I see and taste is infection and sourness but that's just my tastes..

Not a fan in scotch whiskey or rum but dont mind bit sourness in burbon..

Second batch was soured using 35 L of Backset from first batch stripping run. 75 L total. I know…. That’s a lot of back set! 50%. I didn’t want to go through lacto souring again so used Backset. I was going to do two ferments using 1/2 of the Backset for each ferment. Ran into a problem with a fermenter so it all went in one. :doh:

First batch was steam stripped off grain. Second batch steam stripped on grain. Both fermented on grain. Squeezing the BIAB is easier than steam stripping on grain. Makes less mess! :-|

Did spirit run today with both batches combined. 10 L @ 160+ proof. Deffinately has a different taste. I like it, just need to think about how to finish / age this to get flavours that work with the soured flavour.

Seems like my 2” column is finally dialed in! :-D it ran 160+ proof for 10L !

10L of 160+ proof. That’s after heads and everything below 100 proof saved for a feints run. I am happy with that for an experiment!

Have been doing some reading on lacto souring beer. Not sure if it is acceptable to post links to what I’m reading. Maybe someone can let me know if it’s OK, or not.

Dancing4dan wrote:Second batch was soured using 35 L of Backset from first batch stripping run. 75 L total. I know…. That’s a lot of back set! 50%. I didn’t want to go through lacto souring again so used Backset. I was going to do two ferments using 1/2 of the Backset for each ferment. Ran into a problem with a fermenter so it all went in one. :doh:

First batch was steam stripped off grain. Second batch steam stripped on grain. Both fermented on grain. Squeezing the BIAB is easier than steam stripping on grain. Makes less mess! :-|

Did spirit run today with both batches combined. 10 L @ 160+ proof. Deffinately has a different taste. I like it, just need to think about how to finish / age this to get flavours that work with the soured flavour.

Seems like my 2” column is finally dialed in! :-D it ran 160+ proof for 10L !

10L of 160+ proof. That’s after heads and everything below 100 proof saved for a feints run. I am happy with that for an experiment!

Have been doing some reading on lacto souring beer. Not sure if it is acceptable to post links to what I’m reading. Maybe someone can let me know if it’s OK, or not.

Fine to post the links mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Thanks Sam.

On the topic of using Lacto for souring see the links below. In general he is talking about beer souring.

https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php ... -a-recipe/

https://suigenerisbrewing.com/index.php ... -starters/

The product has sat in jars since the spirit run and the aroma has moderated a bit. Haven’t had time to do anything else other than have the odd sniff.

I've been playing around with Lacto but decided to just use a couple of probiotic capsules instead of rolling the dice with what's on the grain. Mixed with some Baker's and Belle Saison Yeast it's been going for about 6 generations and providing a nice sourness to the wash. i.e. what you'd expect from Greek Yoghurt. It hasn't gone funky sour but I think I'll stop pitching onto the lees and harvest some of the mix and start with something else.

Been thinking doing same with more "controlled" rum dunder pit..

I don't care for scotch whisky or rum, but I can handle a little sourness in burbon.