Muti column reflux

[Potmash Boka]

I've been pondering this one for a while. And after looking at Mechwarriors twin has made me more interested. 4 2" column's with a big single condenser on top( about 6" diam), with reflux return tubes( refer pic).
Question 1: would this run ok or be an absolute bastard
Question 2: has it been done before?
Question 3: if it's been done before and ran ok what problems were encountered in the build etc...

[Kimbo]

I've been pondering this one for a while. And after looking at Mechwarriors twin has made me more interested. 4 2" column's with a big single condenser on top( about 6" diam), with reflux return tubes( refer pic).
Question 1: would this run ok or be an absolute bastard
Question 2: has it been done before?
Question 3: if it's been done before and ran ok what problems were encountered in the build etc...

Mate, for what its worth...I recon you'll be better off having 4 of 2"bubble caps on a 6"plate rather than columns.
the reason being, you will have a greater area for your vapour to travel thru and mix with the distillate. When you think of all the wasted space...
For example:
the area of a 2" (50mm) plate is 19.63 cm2
X 4= 78.52cm2
the area of a 6" (150mm) plate is 17671.46 cm2.
just my 2c :handgestures-thumbupleft:

you can always add a packed section later.
( I'm a big fan of the KISS method)

[SBB]

Pretty sure a Bloke on another forum put some photos up of something similar, it was a nice looking build from memory, it had 4 or 6 columns I think. His boiler size upset the size police, I think the threads still there if you can find it , but hes gone.

[MacStill]

This is the build Mozzman put up here, not sure if the HD thread had anymore progress or info though.

[Potmash Boka]

Cheers guys, don't remember that thread.ayne subconsciously that's where the idea came from if I did see it. Mac, what I was thinking the top of the still below the reflux coils would be a 6" plate with 4x 2.5" bubble caps, all the reflux from the plate drains would run into the packed columns, as per a normal reflux. Then repeat the cycle. Why I was pondering this is when it was running you could collect all the foreshot and heads in one go, drain off then bring it back to bath depth on the plate where you should have just hearts with as little smearing as possible.

[Yummyrum]

Hi Potmash.
I'm also following mechs dual vm build with interest.

The only difficulty that I can see is the even distribution of reflux into each column.get that sorted and I think its a great idea for someone thats got lots of 2" .
What was intetesting was that mech recons he can double his power ( obviously he would need too) up to 4800watts....way more than most blokes run a 4" bubbler and I'm gessing he will end up with a much cleaner product for a lot less initial investment.Obviously this is a one trick pony unlike the versitlity of a bubbler.

[Sam.]

I think this idea is a bit different to Mechs. Is the idea Potmash that you are basically feeding one single plate with 4 bubble caps and 4 downcomers from 4 tubes that ideally have already refluxed enough to gain a high ABV?

Sort of the reverse of having a single plate bubbler with a 1500mm packed section? :think:

[TheMechwarrior]

Just some detail for you mate:
Volumes, power and vapour speeds for you to ponder:
(Based on a column 1200mm high)



Note that your 4 x 2" "gattling gun" has the exact same volume as a 4" column.
So you really need to be looking at 4,800W, have you considered your available electrical supply?

Now, take your idea and multiply it by many hundreds of 2" columns several stories high; then surround the column bundle in a jacket pumped full of steam and you have yourself something I've worked on for years ;-)

I'll preface what I'm about to say by firstly stating "I don't have too many moonshine stilin' runs under my belt".
I do stripping runs at full power.
When I have enough strippate for a run I run the VM on 23L of 40% ABV strippate...at full power for the entire run. If I cut the power back and took off slower towards the end I could possibly get more hearts but time is more important to me. The tails don't amount to much and besides they'll go into another run one day so no real loss.

Now, as for the multi column:
I packed and insulated both columns identically, matched the reflux condensers as best I could. In all honesty they seemed to be operating in tune and the only way I could have improved it would have been to ensure the exact inlet temp and flow of cooling water to each of the reflux condensers but for the sake of a speed test I was happy to run all loops in series.
For more than 2 columns I would consider enclosing all columns (gattling gun) inside an insulated shell.

For your job I'd consider using a distributor plate, which would be easier than what you have drawn. I have photos of what these look like in falling film multi effect evaporators (35kL/h and 77kL/h) I can upload later if desired.

This puppy will be damn heavy! Imagine taking it off to do a stripping run :angry-banghead:
This puppy will produce the same amount as a 4" if you are lucky but starting with the 4" offers you a modular step into the world of bubble plates should you desire rums etc in the future.

If I didn't already have access to vast quantities of 2" and less components I would not have hesitated in going down the 3" or 4" build path.
I'd suggest you consider the same, unless you have 2" on hand AND can do all the welding yourself you will find it far simpler and far cheaper to build the 4".
Alternatively, you could by a ready built plug-her-in and off-you-go 4" from Mac right here in the FSD store :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I'll be watching you :D

Mech.

[Potmash Boka]

Sam, that's pretty much the idea. It's just an idea I've had for a while, something Mac initiated talking about fraction compression to someone( honestly can't remember who). I got to thinking if you had multiple columns feeding through a big bubble cap plate then overflow into the packed column that this would put a fair bit of the total alcohol in suspension between the packed column and the cap plate bath. Which to my screwed up head says the fractions should be compressed a bit more, and you could bleed off the fore/heads fairly quickly and easily, leaving the heart with a little tails coming through. :happy-partydance:
I don't know if my thinking is off here, it's just an idea. Pick the crap out of it. That's why I put it up. If an idea can't survive peer review, then the idea was faulty. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Sam.]

My only question now is what is your target drink here?

[Potmash Boka]

Just for making Neutral I think. Anything else and it would probably just strip all flavour anyway. Unless I ditched the packed columns and replaced them with a big thumper. Bugger I might just have to build both and find out what happens.
6" thumper with 3" centre cap, 6" plate above with 5 x 2" caps.

[Yummyrum]

Potmash .I think at 1.5 meters you will need way less reflux ratio than at say 1 meter....at a lower RR , tte variations will nenot so signoficant.I thi k your 4x downcomer / reflux centering method will probably be fine.

Its an interesting desgn and although you have shown it as an LM style, it could just as easily be reconfigured as CM with a deflagmator or as VM.Is there any reason you have gone with the LM option.

[Potmash Boka]

No real reason Yummy,it's just what came to me. Your right it could be configured many ways, this way would be the easiest for me to construct. Just the though of winding a coil that size is already doing my head in. :angry-banghead: Why do I think of these things?